I do not own a Nacra 20, but I have sailed one on TV.

At the last F18 event (the only one I've been in charge of measuring for) we measured 90% of the spinnakers, and three mains. We template-checked everything else. We had 30 or 40 boats and it took two people out of the fun for two days - we weren't measuring that whole time - much of it was waiting for people to bring their sails over. Boats were being weighed at another station.

In-house certification (something the F18s are pursuing internationally) would eliminate the need for measuring except in the event of a protest. It would seem to me that the 20s could be controlled fairly easily since you're only dealing with one loft, which has already demonstrated a concern and willingness to work with the class.

Congrats to getting it done, John.

Group,
Please excuse me for my lack of knowledge, but once a set is measured, and certified, is there any need to continue to check them? I mean if they are certified at a race and mark stamped and or placed on the sail, why can't it be ruled class legal, as long as no modifications are done to it? Wouldn't this cut down on the time and labor involved?
Thanks

Forrest Lockliear N-20

Once measured... its legal for the rest of it's life.

Think of the 70 charge as insurance on the 3500 you invest in new sails and battens so that you KNOW you are playing fairly AND you have the best sail you can get for your money.

Measuring sails is not a new concept... perhaps the F18 and N20 class should look at how the dinghies, A cats and Tornado's do it and pay for it.

At F18 worlds they do (did?) measure everything even if it was already certified. The certification process is thorough but it's not difficult to work around or fake approval using a previously approved set.

What is the N20 class position on recutting (reshaping) stock sails?

Since no sails are measured right now, we wouldn't know if they were re-cut...

My thoughts:

1) Measuring sails is a pita, but I am willing to pay the $50-100 to have them measured and class approved. Re-cutting to make them fit is a different story...I would definitely have one set re-cut if needed so I can still race, but I feel this MAY exclude some people. IMO, keep the measurement requirement at the big events only.

2) If EP are willing to accept and make changes great. The sailplan should be open and should have been open from the start. Works great in EVERY OTHER HIGH PERFORMANCE BOAT. We are talking about boats that rate lower than 18 foot skiffs...they sure as hell don't have one specified manufacturer for sails! What ends up happening is one manufacturer puts the time and effort in to making the best sails, and most people buy those (18 foot skiffs happen to use North at the moment). If EP wants to be the dominant manufacturer, they have to prove their sails are faster than the competitions.

3) "Reaches are for the sailmaker" (quote from a sailmaker). It was proven on this years T500 that the F18 sailplane was superior to the N20. Duh! The F18 is on it 5th iteration of sail design! IMO, having beaten good N20 sailors upwind with older sails, and promptly loosing on a reach, the main and the jib matter less than the spinnaker on a reach. I have proven this in other manners on big boats, but the bottom line is we should adopt a new spinnaker for Tybee/GT etc and the teams can measure in their spinnaker of choice for the day.

Bottom Line: Open sail development is FAVORABLE to the class, today's sails won't be outdated overnight unless they fail to measure into the class box rule (which is really EP's fault, unless our box rule is stupid), and assym's for reaching and for running have two different cuts=we need a different cut for distance racing with 70+ mile reaches!

not only no, but heck no.

What he said.

Have you seriously been happy with the sail cut of the spinnaker sails you've been recieving? Or are you sending them back to EP until they get it right?

I wouldn't say I'm happy, but I haven't sent any back to be re-cut.I'm not sure it would help, without a definitive benchmark.Or if it would be class legal.

So am I hearing a consensus here? (To recap):

- don't open sails up to other mfg. just yet
- push for better consistency and quality control
- allow for updates to sail plan over a 3 year phase-in program

So that only leave's Mike's comment about nationals or some other event where one guy's got the new plan, and everyone else has an older design.

How about something that wouldn't allow a new sailplan to compete at a national event unless there was sufficient time for everyone to consider buying that plan (say minimum 12 months of availability prior to it being allowed at nationals?)?

Quick question for N20 owners.

The bottom of my main has been pulling out of the track. The bottom part where I feed it in to the mast and attach the downhaul. This has pulled out a couple of times recently. I'm wondering if other people are having this problem? I'm also trying to figure out some kind of fix for the problem. I have already given the main to a sail shop to beef up the bottom part of the luff rope. Hoping to add material so that it won't be prone to pull out. If I continue to have problems I'm considering stiching into the sail some of the plastic slugs so that it doesn't pull out.

I know some folks might think I'm running my outhaul too tight but that is not it. I have a stopper line so that I can't pull my outhaul past a certain point. I've had that same stopper line on there for years now.

It usually happens when I have a lot of mainsheet tension on without much downhaul.

Now it looks like the bottom part of my slot on my carbon mast is open a little furter than the top slot. I'm not sure if it was originally made this way or not?

Any help or thoughts is appreciated.

That piece of "abrasion" resistant cloth wears out on mine often. If the extra material doesn't do it, it probably will. You could lay a thin layer of carbon in the mast track.I'd look for small longitudinal stress cracks in the luff track. Has it always done it with THIS sail? Maybe the bolt rope is too small. You need to tell Holly to ease up.
Todd

have your sailmaker put a plastic slug on the bottom of the main (I'm quite sure they used to come with a plastic slug on the bottom several years ago).

However, it shouldn't come out unless the outhaul is pulling on it...with is skrunched up (not much downhaul), the geometry would put more pressure on the luff track down at the bottom to pull it out.

The very bottom of the sail doesn't pull out. And apparently they switched from a plastic sail slug to just using a bit of luff rope at the bottom now.

It pulls out at the bottom of the luff rope above the break.

And the outhaul isn't pulled that tight. In fact if I could put more outhaul on I would. I can never get enough outhaul on the bottom 1/3 of the sail. I pretty much run at max all the time. Even in lighter air.

Just goes to show what kind of variations there are in the sails. If I put my outhaul on just a bit, it flattens the sail out so horribly that it has literally no shape whatsoever. Flat as a board.

that is weird. I've seen that happen in a capsize after someone falls in the sail but not from normal sailing. Have you measured the luff track (as I think Todd eluded to)?

We had to put in over 3 inches of spreader rake just to be able to get the wrinkles out without going max on the downhaul (actually max wasn't quite enough).

When I bought my Hobie 20 it had a pretty nicely shaped main. But it was explained to me that it had benefited from the custom at the time to take your new stock sails to get them recut so they would be shaped right (some markings on it seemed to support that). It's just that nobody openly admitted it at the time, but if you didn't do it you would be slow. Wonder if that's where we might be without anybody admitting it.

did you guys contact E/P about that mainsail?