Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: WillLints] #181265
06/07/09 04:40 PM
06/07/09 04:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline
old hand
waynemarlow  Offline
old hand
W

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
Yes but if you take the halyard foward to a pulley attached to the outhaul of the spinnaker and then back through the cleat you can then outhaul and uphaul at the same time, far easier as a single hander smile

--Advertisement--
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: waynemarlow] #181267
06/07/09 05:25 PM
06/07/09 05:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 163
Atlanta
GeoffS Offline OP
member
GeoffS  Offline OP
member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 163
Atlanta
Originally Posted by waynemarlow
Yes but if you take the halyard foward to a pulley attached to the outhaul of the spinnaker and then back through the cleat you can then outhaul and uphaul at the same time, far easier as a single hander smile


I am thinking of doing that in the future. (a) I didn't want to have to get a longer spinnaker halyard right now and (b) I was wary of doing something that might obstruct the jib since we do sail the boat double-handed on occasion. Do you run your spinnaker halyard forward to the tack line block over or under your jib traveler track?

I sure miss end-pole snuffers. I hate dealing with the tack line. It seems like a huge hassle to move the hoop back a few feet.

Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: GeoffS] #181298
06/08/09 03:48 AM
06/08/09 03:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline
old hand
waynemarlow  Offline
old hand
W

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
The halyard goes under the jib track simply by lowering the pulley slightly on the beam. In my case I have the outhaul and its associated 2:1 pulley system within the pole exiting simply through a hole drilled in a Aluminium plug, I don't seem to get pulley and rope failures that way.

You need surprising little spare halyard laying on your tramp as a single hander, effectively if you have more than 2 metres spare you will probably be able to have enough to run it foward to pick up the tack. I have now only about a 2 metre loop between the bag tail and the cleat ie it only sits about 1 metre along the front of the tramp. cool

Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: waynemarlow] #181401
06/08/09 03:18 PM
06/08/09 03:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 163
Atlanta
GeoffS Offline OP
member
GeoffS  Offline OP
member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 163
Atlanta
Originally Posted by waynemarlow
...In my case I have the outhaul and its associated 2:1 pulley system within the pole exiting simply through a hole drilled in a Aluminum plug...


When you have a moment, it would be awesome if you could post a drawing of this. I have attached what I thought these single line retrieval systems looked like, but based on what you are saying I may have it wrong.

Attached Files
single_line.gif (421 downloads)
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: GeoffS] #181406
06/08/09 03:48 PM
06/08/09 03:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
T
tshan Offline
old hand
tshan  Offline
old hand
T

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
That is close. The only difference mine had was:

1. the pully between the red and teal line is a back-to-back set of blocks.
2. The teal line goes through the aforementioned back-to-back blocks and dead ends back at the end of the pole (I tied mine to the eyestrap that was on the pole).

t


Tom
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: tshan] #181424
06/08/09 05:51 PM
06/08/09 05:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 163
Atlanta
GeoffS Offline OP
member
GeoffS  Offline OP
member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 163
Atlanta
Like this?

I'd still like to see how waynemarlow configured part of the system inside his pole.

Attached Files
10611.gif (377 downloads)
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: GeoffS] #181443
06/08/09 07:49 PM
06/08/09 07:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
veteran
tback  Offline
veteran

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
That is how mine runs (back to back block on the tack). I understand the Viper and F17 run a single block on the tack.


USA 777
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: tback] #181477
06/09/09 04:15 AM
06/09/09 04:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
old hand
pepin  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
I have both system: with a single block on the 5.2 and with the back to back pulley on the F16. I prefer the simplicity of the first one as there is no need for a purchase there. I may retrofit the F16.

Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: GeoffS] #181480
06/09/09 04:32 AM
06/09/09 04:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline
old hand
waynemarlow  Offline
old hand
W

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
Exactly as per your drawing except instead of a back to back block, put a line between the block of approx. 1/3rd of the length of pole. The front block and out haul goes inside the pole, the rear block and halyard goes outside of the pole, the interconnecting line goes through a hole in the tube.

I simply made a 10mm hole in the ali tube, stuck the shank of the drill in the hole and then bent it toward the rear of the boat, it made a very neat flare in the tube which doesn't cut the rope.

Just be careful on the lengths as its all a bit tight to how far you have to outhaul but on a 2:1 system then you probably only need < 1.0 metre of length. as most snuffers are not 2.0m back from the tip of the pole.

The main reason I put it inside my pole is I had "snared" a laser sailor in my local club racing whereby my outhaul had become tangled in the rear of the boom of the sailor when he very unsportingly decided to turn in front of me dispite the very large difference in speed between us, took some time and a bit of bickering to get ourselves untangled. Sad fact was technically I probably was in the wrong. But when you are faced with a line of 10 lasers all going at the same speed and they simply will not let you through despite totalling screwing your race it can be a bit frustrating. wink

Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: pepin] #181491
06/09/09 07:21 AM
06/09/09 07:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
veteran
tback  Offline
veteran

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by pepin
I have both system: with a single block on the 5.2 and with the back to back pulley on the F16. I prefer the simplicity of the first one as there is no need for a purchase there. I may retrofit the F16.

When retrofitting, does your spi' halyard length need to change?


USA 777
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: tback] #181495
06/09/09 08:31 AM
06/09/09 08:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
old hand
pepin  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
Originally Posted by tback
Originally Posted by pepin
I have both system: with a single block on the 5.2 and with the back to back pulley on the F16. I prefer the simplicity of the first one as there is no need for a purchase there. I may retrofit the F16.

When retrofitting, does your spi' halyard length need to change?
It may need to be a little longer, depending on the length of the 2:1 system and the distance between the snuffer and the end of the pole. In my case I am lengthening the pole to accommodate my new spi, so I'm going to have to change all of them probably as the distance snuffer/pole-end increases.

Another way to see the needed halyard length is to look at the length of halyard left on the trampoline. With the spi up, there should be no difference between the two system. Bringing the spi down is going to consume some length of halyard to let the pulley travel forward along the pole. The single line system will travel 2 times the way a back-to-back pulley line would do, so it's going to remove from the trampoline an additional pole-end/snuffer length.

Depending on your perspective, the single line system will clean up you trampoline more when you snuff down or the dual pulley system is not going to let as much halyard on your trampoline when the spi is up...

Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: pepin] #181498
06/09/09 08:46 AM
06/09/09 08:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
I use a back to back block and have no excess spi halyard whether up or down. It is a little trickey getting the tack line the exact length.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: GeoffS] #181502
06/09/09 09:35 AM
06/09/09 09:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
T
tshan Offline
old hand
tshan  Offline
old hand
T

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
Originally Posted by GeoffS
Like this?


Yes. That is how my Blade was configured. I ran the retrieval line down through the grommet in the tramp for the mast rotator, instead of to the back beam. Kept me facing forward when uni and dousing.

The Viper has the back-to-back blocks running up the mast. It goes like this: Dyneema ties off to the forestay sheave (?), down the mast, through the back-to-back block, up to the block for the spin halyard and to the head of the spin. A separate line runs from the the spin tack, into the pole, exits the main beam end of the pole on a block inside the spin pole, up the mast, through the back-to-back block, down the mast, through the mast mounted halyard cleat, through a small block on the main beam, back through a ring on the tramp and back forward through a hole on the tramp and into the spin snuffer.

The spin lines for the Viper came stripped in all the right places, so I am going to stick with that system for a while. It requires some thinking when rigging, but seems to work fine one set up.

I apologize for the layman's terms, but it is all I know (there is probably some fancy word for back-to-back block).


Tom
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: pgp] #181503
06/09/09 09:38 AM
06/09/09 09:38 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Mark P Offline
old hand
Mark P  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
This is a little bit difficult to explain but if you're worried about your existing spi halyard being a bit short with a 1:2 tack line then one of the easiest ways to maximise the length is NOT to tie the tack line off at the end of the pole.
I use back to back pulleys, one end is attached to the spi foot/tack and the other in the case of the blades 2 up Stealth's at the connection between the compression strut and pole. This has the added benefit of shorten both the tack line and spi halyard. The distance between the front beam and roughly mid spi pole is ample for the single line back to back pulley system to work.


MP*MULTIHULLS
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: tshan] #181509
06/09/09 09:55 AM
06/09/09 09:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
old hand
pepin  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
Originally Posted by tshan

The Viper has the back-to-back blocks running up the mast. It goes like this: Dyneema ties off to the forestay sheave (?), down the mast, through the back-to-back block, up to the block for the spin halyard and to the head of the spin. A separate line runs from the the spin tack, into the pole, exits the main beam end of the pole on a block inside the spin pole, up the mast, through the back-to-back block, down the mast, through the mast mounted halyard cleat, through a small block on the main beam, back through a ring on the tramp and back forward through a hole on the tramp and into the spin snuffer.
Nice... A 1:2 on the halyard instead to have it on the outhaul. The spi must go up really quickly with such a system, one pull get the tack in place, two pulls and it's up? Not to mention that everything up the mast could be single braid dyneema as you never pull on it... Nice! The only disavantage I see is that it uses more line and one more pulley if you want it on the front beam.

Now you got me thinking about some hybrid, with a loop up the mast, another along the pole and a third line going from one to the other, then to the tramp and back to the snuffer... Some thinking is in order... I'm not sure this will leave enough line for the retrieval line.

Last edited by pepin; 06/09/09 09:57 AM.
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: pepin] #181510
06/09/09 10:01 AM
06/09/09 10:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
veteran
Jalani  Offline
veteran

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Hans has taken it all a step further with a 1:2 purchase on the halyard running up the forestay and therefore keeping the airflow over his carbon wingmast ultra-clean!


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: Jalani] #181513
06/09/09 10:23 AM
06/09/09 10:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
old hand
pepin  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
Originally Posted by Jalani
Hans has taken it all a step further with a 1:2 purchase on the halyard running up the forestay and therefore keeping the airflow over his carbon wingmast ultra-clean!
Well, I do use my jib from time to time with my son. So, that's not an option for me.

Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: Jalani] #181531
06/09/09 11:35 AM
06/09/09 11:35 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Mark P Offline
old hand
Mark P  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
A 1:2 needs more muscle to pull up/down, especially if the kite partially fills. However, Kathleen seems to manage OK on Gill's Blade which has a 1:2 spi halyard. But like you said more rope alongside the mast does affect the airflow and in Gills case contradicts the internal downhaul. I wonder how much performance is lost in real terms with having the spi halyard up the mast compared to the windage factor with a 1:2 system on the forestay? not even measurable I would imagine but more psychological.


MP*MULTIHULLS
Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: Mark P] #181547
06/09/09 12:43 PM
06/09/09 12:43 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Perhaps Klaus can give us a quick estimation on that. My guess, it is just psychological and nothing else.

Re: request picture of spin halyard cleat [Re: pepin] #181557
06/09/09 01:52 PM
06/09/09 01:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline
addict
Kris Hathaway  Offline
addict

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Slow down. That is not a 1:2 halyard described by T-shan because it is a back-to-back block.

I always wanted to see 1:2 halyard system because the coinciding retrieval line would also need to be 1:2 or some other way to carry the extra line. Most likely the retrieval 1:2 block would have to partially enter the chute sock and the retrieval would most certainly run through a block on the rear beam.


Kris Hathaway
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Damon Linkous, phill, Rolf_Nilsen 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 409 guests, and 98 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,404
Posts267,055
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1