How did F18 get Started in North America????

I heard a funny little fact the other day.
The reason for the F18 being 180kgs is because when the rules where being drafted Nacra where not able to built it at 150kg like all the other builders where doing.
So the next time you break your back moving it around, think of Nacra!

Sorry for the hijack , carry on.

it would be funny if it was a fact....

It was actually the frenchies that wanted the 180kg... Now who makes boats in france??

Nacra wanted 160kg (same a tornado)

Actually, at the very beginning, the North American rule had a different weight than the International F18 class - I don't recall if it was heavier or lighter (I think the NA rule was actually lighter than the F18 standard). However, that weight discrepancy between the North American and F18 rule wasn't in place very long. The same folks that ran the Nacra classes were heavily involved with the formation of NAF18 organization at the outset. A year or two later the NAF18 class fully adopted the European rules.

The Tigers at the time (which I think Tom is getting at) were in the US in force racing mostly Hobie one design and we all quickly came together to race F18.

Yves Loday had a lot ot do with the rules - He designed the Hawk - nothing to do with H

Check out this site www.sailinglouisiana.com

Your photos section is pretty depressing.

I'm pretty sure Sailing World would not be happy to know you swiped their logo, either.

Why would you give that guy clicks when he basically just spammed the forum without adding anything of value?

Apparently Sailing is your obsession and not spelling.

"Wecome to Sailing Louisiana.com, were our sologon is:

" Sailing is not just a sport, it is an obession !!".

Boy, I didn't mean for my post to start the negativity. This is probably someone (we probably know) who's new and/or enthusiastic about catsailing in Louisiana and it's a nice attempt at building a website for that purpose. Give 'em a chance.

Tom

Rob Jerry figured out a way to bring in Tigers separate from masts and this allowed him to sell the boats as Hobie Tigers with the owner putting the mast onto the platform which solved existing Hobie legal constraints. The Tiger was full F18 compliant and a very good boat, in fact the standard for years. Nacra was already marketing the Inter18 in the US and did not think that the F18 idea would fly in the US because of the light winds... They had gone the way of powering up all of their boats for the US market and that is how they introduced the Inter 18. the Inter 18 had a carbon stick and bigger sail then the EU F18 rule. Eventually, Mark Biggers and CRAM decided to change course and get inline with the F18 plan BUT the CRAM fleet had no interest in measuring boats and sails. the NAF18 group was formed with a joint decision by Hobie Nacra and Mystere to use a rule set that differed from the Internatonal rule. The idea was that Mystere and Nacra would build boats for the F18 rule... just like the Tiger but they would not measure the things because that was too much of a headache So, the agreement was that if the factory sold it... it was class legal. The minimums were lowered a bit to ensure that every boat would measure in. Basically this was irrelevent since Nacra and Mystere were builing boats for the EU market where they were measured. They grandfathered the Nacra inter 18 mast to jump start the class and they decided to exclude the N5.5 sloop or TheMightyHobie18 from being upgraded to F18 status as well.... (no measurers around.) The factories even ran a joint F18 NA's in the beginning. It looked like with both major US builders on board the F18 would really take off. Still the different rules grated on some sailors... (eg nacra was cheating and sending light boats to the US market.) Although it stomped on the F18HT class which also started at this time.. The 20 or so F18HT sailors did not migrate back to F18's... rather they moved on to A cats or other boats. Hobie brought the Tiger worlds to the west coast ... but the Tiger SMOD idea (Crew weight and sail area did not match the F18 rules) did not kill the F18 class nor did the Tiger class blossum either.

Something big happened though which seemed to stall the growth of F18 racing. What we observed was that the factories took to running manufacture only nationals. The reason given was that ISAF international class status requires these regattas and both factories needed to have the US having the proper number of boats at the nacra and hobie NA's. All the factories had an eye on Olympic status as well and full ISAF status was viewed as important.
Attendance suffered at national events because nobody could afford TWO, week long NA's.. (your SMOD regatta and the F18 NA's It became tough to get critical mass.. The Tigers were forced to cancel the NA's at St Francis Yacht club at the last minute because of a lack of interest just a few years after the Tiger worlds). The NAF18 class figured out that while dealer and manufacturer support was great.. control had problems and over a couple of years they eventually decided to dump the NAF18 rules and get in full compliance with the F18 international class rules and do the bottom up class management that most OD classes follow, they now have measurers in place.

A big help was Capricorn which entered the US market and since Nacra produced two F18's after the Inter 18. these three boats (Cap, F18 and Infusion) along with the Tiger helped to break up real US bent on strict OD racing... So the Forumla idea got more US acceptance over time slowly wining over the SMOD mindset of US sailors.

One of the big events that played into the F18 history was the beginning of the Hobie Edict about two or three years after Rob started sailing the Tiger. Supposedly spun up by the introduction of A cats and a dealer/fan at a big Hobie events in the Pacific Northwest and then driven by US dealers and the IHCA... The game was changed and sailors had to pick F18 or SMOD Tiger. Hobie decided to really push the Tiger One Design in the US and not the F18 concept. Tiger sailing had a good run on the West coast following the worlds (despite the following St Francis fubar) Yacht clubs supported F18 sailing and that seems to have worked out on the west coast as they get ready for F18 worlds in next year or so. The Hobie edict also followed Nigel Pitt's leadership of the NAHCA and the Hobie Mega. Nigel took the stand that all cat racing was good but sadly that scene ended as a huge upset after the edict and Hobie politics worked the way through the system. This caused some of those sailors to flip to Nacra's as the clubs in the south rejected the Hobie only deal.

Since all racing is local in the end... SMOD regattas stopped F18 class growth in a couple of areas of the country. Moreover, the Nacra 20 really met the needs for the big boys and the F18 could not quickly kill off the N20 class...(Still hasn't and those guys are still fighting) especially with distance racing a big part of the spinnaker boat appeal.

Canada never had these culture wars... the F18 class worked for them and they frequently have more turnout at Canadians F18's then either Hobie or Nacra SMOD events or the F18 NA's.

So... here we sit... Tiger one design sailing in Upstate New York and the Pacific Northwest. F18 sailing in the South and Southwest, growing in New England N20's going down and F18's going up .. and doing well on the Pacific coast existing with Tiger one design sailing. Oh.. and over time the CRAM sailors... moved on to nacra 17's along with an F18. CRAW has similar numbers of F18's and 20's.

The big hope is that the F18 worlds will really kick the class up a notch or so... Your stock Tiger is fully F18 compliant and perhaps the Wildcat gets some love from Hobie sailors as well to balance the number of Cap and Infusion fans.

To clarify, Nigel (creator of Spring Fever Regatta) was not in favor of the Hobie-only deal. The way that was written sounded like he was responsible for it.

+1 jake. Nigel has always supported bringing any boat to Spring Fever.

yes it could be read that way.. I changed it to reflect your point.
Mark

Your version of history is so perverted and full of errors, Mark - I don't even know where to start.

Tigers were brought into the US in 1999. I'm not sure about your Rob Jerry story, but I'll ask him the next time I see him. The first OD racing took place in Division 16 in 2000.

Nigel was elected NAHCA Chairman in 2000 - immediately following my tenure. He lost the election the following year (2001) to Rich McVeigh.

By 2002, 75 had been brought to the US (Hobie Tiger ISAF annual Report). That's when the Tiger became an ISAF International Class. That year, there were 26 at the North Americans (the Mega in Ft. Walton Beach).

The "Hobie Edict" was announced in early 2004 and went into effect in 2005. Not "two or three years after Rob started sailing his Tiger". Five years.

ISAF International Class status does not depend on National Championships. I suggest you read ISAF Regulation 26.

The Hobie 18 would never have been an F-18 because it has curved crossbars.

The 2005 Tiger Worlds in CA was a big success. Unfortunately, it's success was a contributing factor to the cancellation of the August 2006 Tiger North Americans. As was the scheduling of the 2006 Tiger Worlds in Spain a couple of weeks before the US event. People were burned out by cross-country and transatlantic travel. Peoples' boats were still in containers - on ships in the middle of the ocean.

BTW, I was there at the St. Francis YC for the 2006 Hobie 17 North Americans (run simultaneously with the cancelled Tigers). There was none of the "fubar" referenced in this and your other diatribes against that event. Disappointment, yes. Changes were made at the last minute to ensure the event was solvent - that happens at almost every major event once you have a handle on real attendance numbers. You can speculate all you want. I was there. I dealt with the people from SFYC. You weren't and didn't.



I feel much better now.

I crewed on the Tiger in 1999 - won the Area D Qualifier that year with Pitt. I was at the Hobie 20 North Americans in Tampa for the HCA meeting and first swing at the election between Pitt and McVeigh. I crewed the first Mega on a Tiger with Newsome. Mine was the very first club affected by the return of a Hobie-only policy - the Midwinters East very nearly didn't happen and there are still today some bad feelings associated with how things went down; it shouldn't be a surprise that I don't speak only for myself. I've been at all of the F18 Championships including the first one, though I was on a 6.0 at the time; I even got to help write the F18 Bylaws when the class leaders started coalescing something coherent. I crewed the 2005 Tiger Worlds with Newkirk. I had a ride for the 2006 Tiger event that was cancelled and was part of the fleet e-mails that were circulated in the couple of months prior, and then subsequent when things got bitter.

Self-aggradizement aside, my point is that I was there for all this stuff, too, and I remember things differently than both of you. There are several dozen perspectives, I suspect. We need to leave all that stuff behind and move on. Carry the baggage if you want to, but don't expect help. This thread may not have been meant to be provocative (TK, you scalawag), but it seems like the Wave thread has spilled over some.

I have given all this Wave,F18,HCA stuff some thought over the weekend. I also went back and looked at a number of old results going back to the late 80's. What we see is the steady decline in numbers(captain obvoius here).
So then when asking why, I started to think about the "Fad" of the Hobie product in the 70's and into the 80's(huge numbers). Numbers start to drop in the late 80's and continue to drop through the 90's. Many regattas open up to the X boats as a way to help get by. This went unchecked by HCA and the numbers continued to drop(HCA's fault?)
It appears to me that much of this is just a natural product cycle. The economy was in much better shape all through the 90's and some people spent money on the high tech/expensive boats. They are not doing that right now(I'm thinking about my can't miss Enron stock)
Then the HCA, in an effort to get a handle on it's fleets, sends down the enforcement policy. I didn't like how it was handled at the time and still don't.
(Where am I going with this?)
Sometimes when you need to clean the garage, you take everything out and start over. So the HCA did that and now needs to keep a close eye on what's happening everywhere( I think that is happening). What needs to be remembered is that there are bylaws and a process that can work to bring change.
The HCA is still and should be primarily focused on the Hobie product, but also consider our fellow sailors and find a way to work with them. I think the idea of having guest formula or one design boats at our events just makes sense if handled correctly.

A side note, I was talking to my father who has run the member guest tournamemnt at his golf club for many years. Normally they put up the sign up sheet and it would be full with 64 teams in days with a alternate list. This year the same sheet went up and they have 25 teams over a couple of weeks(HCA's fault)
Times are changing and looking ahead calmly seems to make the most sense to me.

I agree. I don’t think we are ever going back to the open fleet at HCA regattas but I do think we will continue to see a slow and thoughtful course correction that looks a lot like this. That's my hope anyway.