Matt here is a copy of entry rules.

2 Selection of Teams
2.1 Area Eliminations – There will be Area Eliminations to select the teams that will represent the Areas at the National Championship. The Area Elimination events must not include ineligible teams in the same start or fleet with eligible teams at regattas that are hosting multiple fleets. Elimination events must consist of at least three (3) races and have five (5) or more competitors for its results to be considered valid.
2.2 National Championship, Eligible Teams (20):
a) Area Eliminations (11) – the first place team, or the second or third place team if the first place team is unable to attend, from each of the ten (10) US SAILING Area Elimination events. One (1) additional position is reserved for a second team from the largest participated Area Elimination.
b) Additional Teams (9):
• One representative from the Hobie Class Association, selected by the Hobie Class Association of North Amereica Chair.
• One representative from the classes manufactured by Performance Catamarans/NACRA and selected by Performance Catamarans/NACRA.
• Two representatives from different classes, being the respective class North American Champions. The classes shall be selected by the U.S. Multihull Championship Committee – these are designated the “rotating” class.
• One representative from the Tornado Class, selected by their National Class Representative.
• Three teams selected from Open Petition by the US multihull Championship Committee.
• The returning U.S. Multihull Champion from the prior year.
2.3 Selection Guidelines:
a) Class representatives are encouraged to select their designated representatives according to the following guidelines:
i) Where a Class Association represents multiple one-design classes, their representative(s) should be from their largest class(es).
ii) A current or last year’s National Champion or leader in the class’ national ranking system.
iii) A current or last year’s National runner-up.
iv) A representative deemed suitable by virtue of outstanding sailing accomplishments in that class.
b) The U.S. Multihull Championship Committee shall invite petitions from a double-handed or single-handed one-design or formula class. The Committee may give precedence initially to the classes which:
i) Have the largest participation in Area Eliminations.
ii) Have the largest participation in their most recent national-level event, and
iii) Have a national-level champion or ranked sailor willing and committed to attending this Championship.
In each succeeding year, the committee may rotate the awarding of this invitation amongst the various classes, with the intent to eventually involve all supporting classes directly in this Championship.
c) The U.S. Multihull Championship Committee will evaluate Open Petitions based on completeness, accuracy, and content of a submitted online Petition and Sailing Résumé. Petitions will first be awarded to teams that competed in their Area Elimination. If a petitioning Team did not compete in their Area Elimination, the reason should be explained in the letter of Petition and leniency may be considered.
d) The U.S. Multihull Championship Committee may, after an appropriate registration deadline, fill any vacancies with the second then third place teams from the Area Eliminations in order of the largest attended events and then through additional Open Petitions.
2.4 Once a team has qualified for this event, standings in subsequent qualifying events are void for this selection process. Open Petition may not select previously qualified teams.
2.5 If an Area fails to send a team, the U.S. Multihull Championship Committee shall fill such vacancy with the second or third place team from the Area Elimination with the largest eligible participation, then the next largest, and so on. If no alternate is able to attend, the vacancy shall be filled through Open Petitions of teams that participated in an elimination event and if need be, teams that did not participate in an elimination event.
2.6 Competitors are expected to compete in the area in which they normally race and may only compete in one area qualifier per year. If they cannot make the area qualifier in the area they normally race, they may attend another area qualifier by petitioning the US Multihull Championship committee to do so in advance.
2.7 The U.S. Multihull Championship is open to US Citizens, and permanent residents. Members in good standing of a yacht club that is a member of US Sailing are also eligible to compete. Per US Sailing regulations, the Trophy be not be allowed to leave the continental United States.

3 Alternates and Substitutes
3.1 Once a team’s entry is accepted in any Area Elimination or in the Championship, there may not be any substitution for members of the team except as provided below.
3.2 If a crewmember is unable to attend the Championship or continue in an event in progress due to sickness, accident or other emergency, a replacement crewmember may, with the approval of the Organizing Authority, be substituted for the crewmember for one or more of the races. If the substitution occurs at the Championship, the substituted crewmember must be eligible to compete, and must be of a very close approximate weight to the substituted crew. The representative of the Organizing Authority (typically the Committee Chair) will have the sole responsibility for determining if the reason for the substitution and the proposed crewmember are acceptable.
3.3 If a helmsman is unable to continue an event in progress due to sickness, accident or other emergency, the other crewmember may, with the approval of the Organizing Authority, become helmsman. If a crew with a replacement helmsman wins an event, the team is eligible to advance to the next event with either the original skipper or the replacement helmsman subject to the approval of the Protest Committee of the event just completed or the Organizing Authority.
3.4 It is the expressed intention of the U.S. Multihull Championship Committee to review the results of the Area Eliminations and the eligibility of teams submitting registration to the Championship. Substitution of a team member after the Elimination event must be adequately explained by the qualified helmsman and accepted by the Organizing Authority. “Poaching” of talent after the Elimination event for the purpose (in whole or in part) of relinquishing helmsman responsibilities will not be permitted. This shall be interpreted as the “Anti-Ringer Rule.”

Dave - I'm aware of the various ways to get to the finals.

The Alter Cup has always been a mixture of "The Championships of Champions" and a ladder event. I'm trying to stick to the ladder event portion, since that's what the thread is really about.

I still think the Area championships should be sailed in a double-handed one design, whether it be a Hobie 16, Hobie 18, Hobie 20, F-16, F-18, I-20.

It doesn't exclude the A-cat or Wave sailors, Pete. They just need to find a ride and a crew. If you pick a popular class, it's not that hard to do.

That says it all!

That's a great question!

1) The standard answer is the qualifier is a means to an end ... which is a classic one design regatta where you swap boats. The quality of the fleet and the efforts the volunteers have put in to make the event public makes a slot valuable to you.

My other answers would be.

1) The top guy in the A cat class is rarely challenged locally. The pro's race the pro's in the other class and they understand the nature of handicap ratings and take the results with a grain of salt. If you win all the time.. change is good.

2) An inter class championship raced on handicap would be a unique once a year event and the variety of racing new people would keep the racing fresh. Keeping the events fresh is important to keeping the ball rolling... this area championship clearly adds to the variety.

3) The PR value of the qualifier should be higher then your standard weekend regatta because the winners move on to the national level. If we did PR, this would be a good event to make some noise about since it feeds the national championship.

4) I argue that since the sailors have likely competed in lots of different classes ... the multiclass handicap championship is at worst a good chance to see old friends.

5) Human nature loves to compare sailors... (see the silly A class NA vs Tybee 500 thread). So under the theory that any Publicity is good publicity... Having a regatta that could get some chest beating or dialog going is amusing for the participants and the bystanders and drives interest. Getting your class champion and a top qualifier into the actual championship is another marketing kind of thing.

6) I think that Open class racing is important to getting new racers going into the sport. The Cheseapeake has 5 Open races (distance and buoys) in 5 months... The last buoys race is the Qualifier.... for the dead boat society members... it is likely the biggest race they will see... I figure every one design class has a shot at getting that guy to switch.

7) the ex laser class president noted about a dinghy PN C
class race... When the sailor's focus changes from their precious toy to competition ... the friendliest class will gain a new member.

Are these and other reasons good enough to support the Area Qualifiers at the OD class level...? I hope so!

1) Sweatheart boat ratings.
Solution... We can switch to ISAF ratings.

2) Change the Format to a double handed class similar to the expected championship boat.

That is a reasonable idea. Take Area C
with H16, 17, 18, N20, A class and F16 OD classes. If the event were on H16's... then you would have a qualifier where each OD class would sen a team to charter a boat and race three + races. It would be a lot more work but it could work.

3) Well that is the point of the thread... How much interest is there .... Spinaker snobs, simple is better fans, whatever... You still win the championship... One rule solution could be to relax the rule on crews.

Matt,
The Alter Cup was originally set up as a ladder event 10 areas 10 boats. It remained that way for a number of years until some of the council members thought that there were top multihull sailors that didn't have time to compete in the ladder events and they should be invited. That's when it expanded to 20 teams. I believe I was the only vote against the change.

G.i.

Hi Gordon:

Has there ever been an attempt to make this more of a party? I wouldn't want to diminish the racing in any way, but if there was an open Portsmouth fleet, on a separate course, it might increase participation. I mean for the Alter Cup itself.

As far as the ladder goes, I don't see that as essential. As long as you have 10 or more top crews competing, the selection process should be secondary.

Gordon is spot on. I wasn't there or able to vote no, but was totally against it.
As a little historical review, the Alter cup competitors were comprised of winners from the 10 US Sailing Areas. There were 10 boats sailed in a round robin format, and each team sailed all the races.
This is pretty typical or ladder events in US Sailing.

Attendance at each of the areas was pretty good, for the most part. And everyone sailed what they brung. At that time I was sailing a Hobie 18, but we had about 20 boats, both uni and 2-up. However, there were a few areas that had attendance that was not so good.
So, the powers to be decided that needed to be fixed.
I remember cries from certain areas that this was an unfair way to select the Alter Cup teams. “After all,’ they said, “We have more great sailors in our area than do the folks in Iowa.” Ergo, they asserted, we should have more sailors at the Alter Cup than an area that has fewer “hot” sailors.
In disagreement with that theory, an Area Qualifier is meant to select the BEST team from that area, and then meet with the BEST teams from the other nine areas.
Yet, someone came up with the idea of having twenty teams instead of just ten. The ten Area winners were still allowed to come, but the rest were selected by what could be considered the “good old boy” system. I personally was invited and refused – if I wasn’t good enough to win my Qualifier, why should I get another chance to knock off the guy that already beat me?
Now the sailors were only sailing half of the races in a very complex format. Again, complaining this was unfair to the “hot” sailors, it has now evolved to eliminating the bottom half of the teams and only the top half can sail for the championship.
Most of the time it appears that the Area Winners end up in the bottom half.
The point might be taken here that what is the use of going to an Area Qualifer.., all you have to do is buddy up to whomsoever is making the selections.
Perhaps that is the reason the Area Qualifiers have gone down the tubes.

Okay. Since we seem to be in crisis, again, what would you suggest?

Rick, couple of things. How can inviting a class national champion be considered a "buddy" or "good old boy" thing? It isn't even subjective. The year you were invited, IIRC, you'd won Waves and not participated in the qualifier, so how do you know you weren't good enough?

Are you talking about petitions? Good luck, there, too - it is damn hard to get picked for one of the top two spots. Petitions in the last few years have been in the low teens of submissions, and you have to convince several people on a committee who all have equal votes that you have a chance of winning the regatta. By implying the committee "picks their buddies," your characterization is insulting to the people (including Gordie) who volunteer to run the event.

As far as 20 teams versus 10, during my tenure, we considered seriously going back to that among many other options for updating the manner in which teams are invited. Previous hosts asked us not to go to 10 - they said they can't make budget. That was one consideration in not reversing the decision.

Rick, has it gotten "Too Big", in using 20 teams instead of only 10?

I'm very much in favor of keeping the Alter Cup alive, as it really does put the best up against the best, and all on -even- boats, which I think is the most fair way to do it. But can we keep finding boat manufacturers to supply 10 brand new boats?

And should the selection process be limited to only the National Champion of each class, like it used to be? If you want more teams, then take the top two teams (1st and 2nd place) from each class' Nationals.

I enjoy a good regatta and the Alter Cup Qualifier down here has always been a good regatta, but I have little hope of wining the thing, same with at least 80% of us out there. I can look at the list of entries and tell you who is going to win it and not be -off- by much.

Still, I love to race against these guys, they are the ones who have taught me how to sail better.

I really think you guys are giving the modern AC Championship an unfair shake and I don't think those that are speaking negatively about the 20 team rotation have actually experienced it...so let me say this. I have both sailed in it and run it. I love it. I think it's an incredibly exciting way to race and sail on brand new boats with the best sailors in the country. The rotation system does not take away from the experience...in fact, for me anyway, it adds to it.

The cold hard truth of the matter is that having brand new factory boats, a host club, and a professional race committee aint' cheap. You won't pull it off with 10 teams without the entry fee being a huge influence on who actually attends or potentially killing the whole thing (it already is a factor even with 20 teams). Participation is down everywhere compared to 10 or 20 years ago. People are losing interest. While I agree philosophically with the one design ladder, I don't know how in the world you could ever enough racing support for it unless you just handed the whole deal permanently over to the H16 or F18 class.

Although I have seen some manufacturer selections that perplexed me, I have not experienced any seriously questionable selection for the AC. Manufacturers are encouraged (and usually do) select the winners from their largest National Championship. The Olympic class has had a slot, a rotating class gets to send their champion (selected from their nationals), and the rest are voted on by a committee based on the petitions, that include sailor accomplishments, submitted. Recent changes have been made to add more slots for the area qualifiers to give the best attended qualifier two slots instead of one. It's a clean process. Several years have seen just enough petitions to fill the slots that are needed. There's not any impropriety here. There is a need for more participation and energy investment.

Isn't that what the Hoyt/Jolley fund is supposed to do?
Todd

Todd, the Hoyt-Jolley has covered the cost of the charter fee to the boat supplier. The entry fees go to the host. Cut entries in half and the hosts we have had in the past would have simply doubled the fee to the sailors.

Got it.

Portsmout fleet? Far, far away from the "Cup" course. Supporting the Alter Cup is as good a reason as I can think of to go sailing. Great excuse for a party.

Are you sitting down???

This is my personal opinion, not that of the HCA (and I think Matt may disagree based on his prior post)...

As much as I am an extremely strong advocate of SMOD, I think the Alter Cup and qualifiers are hugely important to all cat classes, and the OD classes should get behind them.

That means helping fund them, finding a way to incorporate scoring (i.e. HCA national points), helping run them, and any and all other avenues that are available.

Division 16 / Fleet 204 did a great job with the event they hosted on Tigers, and even if there were issues (aren't there always?), that was a great model to follow.

The one argument that is hard to battle is the amount of vacation time (how many week-long events can someone attend), but I think that really only applies to the actual championship, and should not be an excuse to not support the qualifiers and overall program.

Mike

Personally I’ve always thought of the Alter cup as the Nationals for Portsmouth sailors. I think the vast majority of one-design sailors (mono and multi) have much more of a stake in their own class championship than any of the US Sailing championships.

We originaly wanted to have the qualifiers in a one design boat per the other championships. After researching the boats in the areas, it seemed that there were very few that could come up with enough boats to hold an event on a one design platform. The idea was to have an event that all multihull sailors could identify with USYRU, as we were just getting started with the governing body for sailing in the USA . You have to realize that this was concieved 20+ years ago.

GI

Looking at the other championships, ours seems to fit OK. I don't know if dividing it would help (probably not), but if there were several types of cat championships, would that actually drive attendance up? What I mean is, if we had 1-up, 2-up sloop and 2-up spin, that might help with the "my rating sucks" issue, but would it really help attendance?

I say, it isn't broken, it's just not well supported for a variety of reasons that changing the template probably isn't going to fix.

Besides, I haven't actually seen any ideas here on how to improve the event itself, just a bunch of non-constructive reasons people don't want to go.

Mike