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Re: Jetty Park Ocean Regatta [Re: ejpoulsen] #18576
06/14/03 08:27 AM
06/14/03 08:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 129
Clearwater, FL
JenniferL Offline
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JenniferL  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 129
Clearwater, FL
Why did I sail uni? Because I couldn't get crew. I had two people line up several weeks before the event but they both canceled. Chuck tried to find someone for me in his area but was only able to find someone who weighed 210 lbs. If they had sailed with me, we would have had a combined weight of around 355 lbs which I didn't think would have been very competative againt Chuck and Mavis at 280 lbs. Besides, I enjoy sailing the boat more as a uni then sloop and with the 2 Nacra 5.5 unis and 3 Taipan 4.9 unis sailing, we essentially had a fleet of 5 boats racing boat for boat.

To answer the question of why we didn't sail with a spinnaker, the conditions were not ideal for sailing with a spinnaker. The wind forecast was for 10 to 20 knots Saturday and in the morning it appeared to be favoring the high side of that range. The forecast also called for a very high chance of thunderstorms anytime during the day. The Atlantic Ocean was not flat either Saturday. There was a bit of a rolling sea and a significant surf to sail through to get off the beach. Since I had not lauched in the surf before or sailed in open waters with big swells, I was a little hesitant about even sailing let alone sailing with spinnaker. I have sailed uni with spinnaker in conditions under 10 in flat water and have had my hands full keeping the boat under control. To sail in stronger winds in rougher seas, I don't think so. If I was sailing sloop with an experienced crew, maybe I would have considered it.

We only sailed 2 races Saturday and 2 races Sunday because the race commitee had to cancel the other scheduled races because of approaching thunderstorms. We barely made it back to the beach Saturday before a squal line hit. I almost lost my boat on the beach when a gust of wind started to send it airborne. If another sailor hadn't of caught it, I would probably be looking for a new boat right now. Having a light boat has its advantages but staying on the beach in high winds is not one of them.

Jennifer
Taipan 4.9 #262

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Re: Jetty Park Ocean Regatta [Re: JenniferL] #18577
06/14/03 11:32 AM
06/14/03 11:32 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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ejpoulsen  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
I'm looking forward to trying the taipan uni--looks like a blast, especially in a breeze.

How do you normally anchor your boat down when it's on the beach to keep it from blowing away?


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Jetty Park Ocean Regatta [Re: JenniferL] #18578
06/14/03 11:52 AM
06/14/03 11:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 69
Chuck Offline OP
journeyman
Chuck  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 69
Hey - Tampa Bayr's - Thanks for making the trek over - especially with less than great forecasts/weather. You let me know which regatta I should come over for. Sorry the weather wasn't all that good - Murphys Law I guess.

Yeah, the thing about the Taipan/F16 - there are so many configurations the boat sails well in - it is hard to get everyone lined up sailing the same. I was the main culprit this time - this is my wife's favorite regatta, and her parents live right there so they could baby sit our daughter. We had planned sailing sloop for some time and I couldn't back out of that. She did the F16hp nationals in the keys with some 15 knot + days and it was a little overwhelming trying to fly the chute in those conditions, so when the weather was similiar to those conditions - she opted to leave the spin behind.

In Florida we have an odd set up - probably over 1000 miles of coastline not including inland waterways that are heavily sailed as well. In my area of Cocoa Beach, Miami, Tampa and Jacksonville, there are so many races within an hour of you - that you never have to leave the area to be able to race every other week during the summer season. So it makes it hard to get people to travel to meet in a common location. So five boats to show up at a given race has been a bit tough for us in Florida. When we get to winter season and late fall, the regattas thin out so that there maybe only one race a month and travelling somewhere to sail makes for sense.


Re: Jetty Park Ocean Regatta [Re: ejpoulsen] #18579
06/14/03 11:46 PM
06/14/03 11:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170
Australia (Queensland)
Berthos Offline
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Berthos  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170
Australia (Queensland)
Eric,

In answer to your question about keeping the boat down on the beach...

You should never leave a 4.9 unattended and rigged on the beach if there's any sort of breeze. The mast on these boats is active sail area and even with the sail down they will blow over. I know of a couple of people with dents in the side of their masts. If you have to leave your boat you should drop the mast. All Aussie Taipan sailors will drop their masts overnight at regattas.

Regards,

Rob

P.S. I'm still looking at getting my trailer design to you but my camera (film not digital) has died and I'm not much of a drawer.


Re: Jetty Park Ocean Regatta [Re: Berthos] #18580
06/15/03 08:06 PM
06/15/03 08:06 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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ejpoulsen  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Thanks for the info, Rob.

I've got a "base" trailer I'm now starting to modify. Phill Brander gave me some measurements off his trailer, but I'm looking for all the ideas I can get.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Jetty Park Ocean Regatta [Re: ejpoulsen] #18581
06/15/03 11:07 PM
06/15/03 11:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 69
Chuck Offline OP
journeyman
Chuck  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 69
A lot of times I have had the problem that boats are stacked up against each other after a day of racing and it is hard to drop the mast. I have had success either putting the boat back on the trailer and securing it, or putting stakes (hurricane tiedowns) into the ground and securing the boat to them. You also have to tie the mast so that if can not start flopping around if the wind comes up. The wing mast can get oscillating so great it looks like the whole boat is going to take off.

Jetty Park Ocean Regatta Pictures On-line [Re: Chuck] #18582
06/16/03 06:15 AM
06/16/03 06:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 129
Clearwater, FL
JenniferL Offline
member
JenniferL  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 129
Clearwater, FL
JPOR pictures are on-line. (Florida Multihull Sailor)

What A-cat sailors are doing here [Re: Chuck] #18583
06/16/03 07:39 AM
06/16/03 07:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

This is about over night parking. During race heats the A-cat sailors do something different.

Of course I will have the same problem as some of you in a few weeks. It will be difficult for me to drop the mast each time.

The two boats next to me are an widened A-cat and a 18 square. Both with carbon wingmasts.

Both of them have put 4 rests into the ground on which the boat is layed up and fixed. Than they hoist two extra lines to the spreaders and use that line to support the mast. They force rotate their mast to the prevaling wind direction (south east where I am) and fix it there. Than they use the main halyard to put the tip of the mast under tension.

Together this seems to totally prevent any oscillation and their mast are totally undamaged for years now. I do know of an A-cat that didn't do this and had the diamond wires pulled out due to oscillation.

I think I will try to make a picture of the setup they use and I have to ask about the specifics too (for my own boat).

But that is how they appear to be doing it.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Jetty Park Ocean Regatta [Re: Chuck] #18584
06/16/03 09:21 AM
06/16/03 09:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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Seeker  Offline
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Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Chuck...you may want to secure your trailer down too (after you secure the boat to the trailer) if you don't already. I lost the mast on my SC 17 when I left my mast up, boat strapped down to the trailer. When I checked the boat after a storm came thru it was upside down with galvanized steel trailer still strapped to it. Mast was broken in half, and bend in a second place. The Supercat was near bomb proof so the boat itself survived...I think a Taipan would have been crushed in similar circumstances...this is not a slam on the Taipan by any stretch of the imagination...just that the Taipan is a lot built a lot lighter, better on the water, but not really built for supporting a trailer on it's back...LOL

Hey, I 've spotted a few new developments ! [Re: JenniferL] #18585
06/16/03 11:38 AM
06/16/03 11:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Michael has changed his bleeched hair do for a shiny biljard ball style of thingy !

Also I noticed that Michael sailed with a remarkably identical number to Jennifer.

Mind you that boat of Jennifer looks smooth. Straight white hulls (no lines) good looking carbon stocks. Very nice


Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Duplicate Sail Numbers [Re: Wouter] #18586
06/16/03 06:05 PM
06/16/03 06:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 129
Clearwater, FL
JenniferL Offline
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JenniferL  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 129
Clearwater, FL
Actually, the sail Michael was using at JPOR has a 1 after the 262 but, yes, it is one of my sails. We have found that Michael's main sail is worn out and is not very competative. I beleave he has ordered a new set of sails cut specifically to the F16HP class rules from Goodall and these should be here in a few months. It will be interesting to see if these sails come with the new F16 ensignia or not. Also of interest, is the jib will be cut for setting up a self tacking jib. If these sails work out, I might get a set for myself. The trampoline can get very small with 2 people on board with the boat rigged with a spinnaker and jib. A self tacking jib would certainly help clean up some of the lines on the tramp.

Jennifer
Taipan 4.9 #262

Re: Duplicate Sail Numbers [Re: JenniferL] #18587
06/16/03 08:28 PM
06/16/03 08:28 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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ejpoulsen  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
I talked to Greg about the self-tacking jib before I ordered my boat. In order to squeeze the f16 sail area into the triangle in front of the beam (as required by a self-tacker), the foot will need to be brought lower. My understanding was that Greg was going to play with this configuration on his own boat first to get the angles right, then make it available. Problem is, Greg has a bit of a conflict of interest with regard to the F16 sail plan and experimenting with it--he doesn't want to push it only to alienate the standard T4.9 faithful.

Incidentally, the cost of a new set of standard T4.9 sails is the same as the cost of a set of new Goodall F16 sails. Another interesting thing Greg told me is that the lighter 4.9 sailors still prefer Dacron mainsails.

I'm still awaiting info on the cost of F16 insignias.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
We stand together [Re: JenniferL] #18588
06/16/03 09:51 PM
06/16/03 09:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

>>>If these sails work out, I might get a set for myself. The trampoline can get very small with 2 people on board with the boat rigged with a spinnaker and jib. A self tacking jib would certainly help clean up some of the lines on the tramp.


Welcome to the club, actually outside Australia there is now a trend to go for a different jib setup. First boat with all F16 sails has been ordered and will be delivered in a 5 weeks time. One Taipan crew nearby is seriously considering to go for F16 sails (especially the jib), The third is building himself but is expected to go for a little luxury too. My boat always was F16 of course. I know Kirt has been looking at modifying the jib setup and a crew in Thailand came with the same suggestion. And not even all aussie sailors will shed a tear when removing the blocks from the trampoline. This aspect has not received much attention but we are certainly not alone in this consideration and some have already decided to take the plunch.

I will have to make hast myself with the jib if I want to enter my one-off F16 at my clubs big distance race this comming august. I'm still a pair of rudders and a jib and spi short of being operational.

I think I will opt for the selftacker. I have a little budget left and it will make super slooping extra fun (singlehanded sailing without spi but with jib)

Like Eric indicates, I will lengthen my jib luff with about a foot and 4 inches. I have yet to decide wether I will go for a fully battened jib or just with leech battens.

My mainsail is already on F16 specs and has been testsailed already by the sailmaker and other enthousiasts on Taipans.
The comments are very positive. I think my mainsail has been passed around a bit before it was being put into its container towards me. My sail was experimental and it was recut a little as a result of the tests but it now does all what we were hoping for. The people involved are very content with it. I decided to go with an australian sailmaker because I thought it to be important let a sailmaker experiment on my sail who really knows the Taipan mast and Taipan low drag boat design. I think a little over a year has passed since the first contacts and it being finished.

I eventually choose to go with Ian Markovitch of Redhead sails. I'm very content with thsi decision. Ian and I spoke with eachother several times and he was very open in discussing my laymans ideas and explain his take on things. As I had done some analysing with Phillip Brander before hand, I found that we were both pretty much on the same track.

It was decided that my mainsail would get a larger squaretop and a more straight leech. My squaretop is a good double the size of the normal Taipan squaretop. I've done away with the flap on the foot of the mainsail and therefor shorten the luff a little. Together we decided to make the luff 8 mtr. long and this meant an area of 14,85 s.m. However, it was apparent from the test that on a standard Taipan mast that the luff should be a little bit shorter. Otherwise it limits the down travellength a little.

The larger squaretop did exactly that the three of us were hoping for. It spills the wind in gusts very well. A comment from a testsail was that the boat lifted noticable less and felt as if it only wanted to accelerate forward. This feel was also found to be present in oscillating light wind conditions, which is something that was not expected. But we are very happy with that just the same. It also seems to hang on to the wind better in lulls.

The only thing we hoped for that didn't materialize was top speed. In nice constant wind both rigs have equal top speeds. The new sail is by no means slowers but it also wasn't noticable faster. Even in stabil light winds both mains were equal. The extra area up high didn't seem to matter. All changed however when the winds had lulls and gusts in it. The squaretop induced accelleration proved to be an edge. In light winds it made more gains during increases in windspeed and lost less in lulls. In heavier conditions the boat threw the test pilot (seasoned Taipan sailor) of his footing. His comment was that he had to reverse his normal sailing attitude to compensate for the accelleration during the gusts.

Due to Ians sailmaker skills the quick reaction of the top was just right. Phill was seriously impressed and that equals big points in my book.

I know that neither of them will post comments along these lines themselfs so therefor I have made this post even though I have yet to sail this baby myself.

I think it is save to say that a F16 mainsail can be expected to work out.

Early on we decided to design the sail to be optimal for a crew of 150 kg's and use an extra pair of stiffer top battens to flatten out the top for singlehanding at 80 kg's.

I'm very happy with the total price of the mainsail, full set of battens and 3 extra battens for singlehanding.

Now I will have to see what Ians thoughts are on selftacking jibs.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Jetty Park Ocean Regatta [Re: Chuck] #18589
06/17/03 03:25 AM
06/17/03 03:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Steve_Kwiksilver Offline
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Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Thanks Chuck & Lindsay for the explanation. I guess it`s hard getting guys together from different regions when you have such active sailing scenes in your own backyard. For that you are fortunate.
And Lindsay, I take my hat off to you - I don`t know too many female skippers who will go out solo in wind that blows boats away, even if they`re light. Not using the spinnaker was a choice based on survival ?
Interesting point to note is that the spinnaker actually helps prevent pitch-poling downwind when it gets hairy - (although I must confess I haven`t tried it in steep swell yet.) Getting it up, down & gybing it is the scary bit on your own. My boat has less bouyancy in the bows than the Taipan, so if it lifts the bows on my boat it should do the same for you. Perhaps one reason I can sail with kite up in more wind is that my mast is only 7,3m !

Find out where the limits are, and start from there.

Cheers
Steve

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