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Mast Rake #187008
08/04/09 08:43 PM
08/04/09 08:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline OP
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arbo06  Offline OP
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South Florida & the Keys
How does mast rake affect a cat's pointing ability and rudder helm?


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Mast Rake [Re: arbo06] #187014
08/04/09 09:40 PM
08/04/09 09:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
It moves around a bunch of letters like CE and CLR which can help you point with more rake(to a point) but will also give you more weather helm which you change by rudder rake). With your boards ahead of your X-beam, I wouldn't know what to tell ya,that's just CRAZY,man.

Just put some GUMBO on it.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Mast Rake [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #187016
08/04/09 09:50 PM
08/04/09 09:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline OP
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arbo06  Offline OP
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South Florida & the Keys
G dammit! I am fresh out of gumbo, but I gots some jamba....

SO. rake back, point higher, stand it up, point lower?


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: Mast Rake [Re: arbo06] #187022
08/04/09 10:33 PM
08/04/09 10:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I
Isotope235 Offline
old hand
Isotope235  Offline
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I

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
Typically, raking a mast back will induce more weather helm. I like a little weather helm. It gives tactile feedback on the tiller and will keep the boat from sailing away if you fall off. I also find that a bit of weather helm helps me point. Too much weather helm induces excess drag (slows you down).

So, I rake the mast to the point where I have just enough weather helm to feel it, but not more than I can control with my fingertips.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Re: Mast Rake [Re: Isotope235] #187026
08/05/09 12:57 AM
08/05/09 12:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
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Will_R  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
The daggers and rudders offset the lateral force of the sails. The difference between the rudders and the boards though are that the rudders are on a pivot. By raking aft, the Center of Effort (CE) moves aft, this loads the rudders up. If they are adjusted right and you have little to no helm, you do not increase drag b/c you're not having to pull on the stick to keep the boat going straight. Just like the sails, the boards have a CE and all the loads have to balance some how. Raking the rudders under or out just moves their balance point closer to or further from the pivot point of the rudder and this is what gives you the "feel" of weather or lee helm.

By raking aft, you can (think about going upwind on a sailboard) improve your upwind performance to a point. If it's REALLY windy, rake will also help your "survivability" downwind.

Adjust the mast to the "optimum" for the platform and adjust the rudders to fix any helm issues.


Last edited by Will_R; 08/05/09 01:01 AM.
Re: Mast Rake [Re: Will_R] #187112
08/05/09 05:40 PM
08/05/09 05:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline OP
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arbo06  Offline OP
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South Florida & the Keys
Thank you Will, good stuff.


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: Mast Rake [Re: arbo06] #187167
08/06/09 04:13 AM
08/06/09 04:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline
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Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Father Bill (Roberts) says start at 5 degrees to start then tweak minorly from there.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Mast Rake [Re: cyberspeed] #187312
08/07/09 09:10 AM
08/07/09 09:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 284
Norfolk, VA
Dan Berger Offline
enthusiast
Dan Berger  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 284
Norfolk, VA
I just added a lot of rake to my SC15 and (I think) it killed my downwind performance. I did a race a few weeks ago and was about dead even with the Hobie 16s down wind, and I could out point them upwind. With the rake, I can point even higher, but a 16 just walked through me down wind last weekend. I'm between 4 and 5 degrees.

So I was thinking that I could loosen the rig by opening the sidestay adjusters--the hayfield levers for the Supercat righting system. That would let the mast move forward, but I think it would destroy the jib's sailshape. I'm also concerned about safety as the lever may not have been designed for that load. I'm only talking about doing this in medium to light wind.

My boat is set up like Craig's with a self tacker, but I remember his boat (used to be mine!) had a ton of rake.


Dan Berger
Norfolk, VA
A Cat USA139
Supercat 15
Re: Mast Rake [Re: Dan Berger] #187381
08/07/09 09:22 PM
08/07/09 09:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline OP
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arbo06  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
Cool, gotcha.. my issue stemmed from the forestay setting being to low, not sure the lever has any effect there. I'll fool with it a bit to see what is up..


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club

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