From what I've seen it looks like the hulls are built of 2 sides, seamed top and bottom, no top cap.
Bill, sleeving the daggerbd trunk should work well. I do understand wanting to minimize cutting up good panels. But the bottom seems pretty broken up, needing a fair amount of reinforcement, which I'd prefer to do inside as much as possible. I'm pretty comfortable that I can do a strong job opening up the hull somewhere, I just want to do it in the least stressed area.
I do appreciate your and other's encouragement that it is indeed fixable.

Dave

Jake,
Your analysis of how this came apart seems apt. Thanks for the reccomendation on glass weight. S glass preferred here? I use West stuff regularly and will probably use it for this repair. The boat's been painted, and I'll probably strip and repaint it this winter. Yeah, Mike's plates around the perimeter look good, along with angling the jig saw blade for the cut. The Ultimate Bondo tip is appreciated, fairing with West fairng fillers always leaves me with pinholes, that takes a lot of primer to fill.
Anyone reccomending carbon cloth for any part of this repair? Overkill? Hard spots?

Dave

Gregg,
Good advice on preserving the orientation of the dggrbd well. Fortunately, if I can push all the bits of the bottom back into place I think I'll have the original positioning.

Dave

DO NOT DO ANYTHING UNTIL YOU TALK TO JP.

AS stated above, these boats are made in 2 parts and then bonded together along the keel/deck.

Talk to JP FIRST. He builds them, he's the expert!

As far as the glass type goes, I would see what the manufacturer used originally and try to match that. I use S-glass when possible. Carbon would simply be overkill and as someone else mentioned above, it would create some sharp stress points where the carbon would flex differently than the glass and you could end up with hairline cracks (or worse). I've got a couple of really good online sources for glass and resins with good service and great prices so if you don't have these already;

www.uscomposites.com
www.fiberglasssupply.com

Thanks Jake, I have been using Fiberglass Supply, and have been pleased with their prices and speedy shipping.

Dave

Here's the correspondence I've been having with John:

The bolts take a 8mm allen key, you should be able to fit the repair panel into the hull via the centreboard slot, no need to cut a hole.

Thanks John, I follow you direction on using the 1" foam to repair and reinforce the bottom. Where do you suggest I cut into the hull to do this work?
Do you know offhand the size of the
Allen(hex) head bolts that secure the beams to the hulls?


Dave,
I would grind out the joint either side of the case and glue it back together with epoxy.
Then I would take out the top bit of daggerboard case.
I can't tell from the pictures if the flange that the daggerboard case is glued to is still there if it has gone then it needs rebuilding.
It looks like it is intact on one side and cut away on the other, so i would cut away that sideways rip to good material, then I would laminate up some 1 inch foam to make a sandwich, then make a panel 4 inches wide and 18 inches long, I would bond this into the inside of the cutaway side so that it covers the cutout and one half of the board slot, put a couple of screws into it and elasticate them to something to hold it in place whilst gluing.
I would then fill and fair this side before cutting out a new slot, I would then bond a new case in, fill fair and paint.
A new case will cost you £90 + carriage.
regards

John



Thanks John, here are the pics.
The daggrdbd well sheared pretty cleanly about midway down, the upper half is still attached to the deck, the lower half is intact, floating around inside the hull. Should be easy to sleeve at the break and re attach at the bottom. The bottom of the hull is all there, but pretty broken up, will need serious reinforcement.
Your advice is most welcome. Thanks for your time!

Dave


Dave

I can't see the pictures can you email me them, my pnone number is +44 1994 240822, call me this evening about 8.00pm uk time, don't cut anything yet!

john


Hey John,
Been having a ball with the Stealth, but I broke it Sat. Can you check out my post and pics on catsailor.com(bigtime repair advice sought), open forum, and shoot me you phone # and good times to call. I'd love to have your input before beginning the fix.
Thanks so much!

I can't say that I follow everything he's suggesting. I have some trouble envisioning doing the whole job from the upper and lower daggerbd openings. What do you guys think?

Dave

My general advice...

Work in glass and epoxy only.
Cut out ALL the damaged stuff.
Repair the bottom first from inside and out. See photos of OneWorld ACC boat repair online. Use single skin construction around the bottom of the case.
Install daggerboard. Can be from old parts if they are undamaged. Ensure good alignment.
Replace deck.

OK men, I've been contemplating all the valued advice rendered, and spent a fair amount of time peering thru the daggerbd openings, and here's what I'm thinking currently.
As I see it, I've got 3 areas to repair. Build a foam sandwich panel to clamp/screw/bog on the inside of the bottom of the hull to pull all the remaining pieces of the bottom back into plane, and reinforce(inside and out).
Bond and fillet into place the lower section of the daggerbd well. And wrap/sleeve the break in the middle of the daggerboard well.
John P and a couple of others are recommending doing all this without cutting an access hole on the inside of the hull. And I can envision how this might be done, but with my skills, I think I can do a better/stronger job with the better access provided by cutting a hole on the inside of the hull, flanging it on the inside and a 5 oz layer of S glass on the outside.
So unless you guys flame me overwhelmingly for this decision, I plan to proceeed. The materials just arrived, and I'm anxious to get her wet again soon. Thanks again to all who've offered advice!

Dave
Dave

Dave before you go hacking into the hull, from experiance of a similar repair on my Stealth ( hit a submerged fishing pot line with the dagger board whilst at top speed with the spinny up, nothing is going to survive except a kick back dagger board ) its far far far easier to fit a complete dagger board case and then do the local repair at the bottom from the outside.

Get a very sharp screw driver and slowly prise the dagger board case away from the hull by chiselling off 1 or 2 layers of the trunks glass layers starting from the middle section, you will quite quickly just delaminate the damaged trunk away from the hull leaving a very neat pefectly intact top section and 3/4 of the bottom section to simply slide in the new case and epoxy in. Then slide in and epoxy in a new repair section where the damage is on the bottom, fill with foam and then lay in a suitable chamfered in top layer.

If you need further help or questions then PM me.

JP is the master in this as he has done many similar repairs and has developed a repair method which is quickest and strongest, he will give good advice.

At the risk of offending those of you who counselled against cutting into the hull, I've gone ahead and done it. Clean cut, should be easy to reassemble. It gave me great access to the badly torn up bottom. Ground off anything loose, pushed pieces back into place, laid down one layer of saturated 5 oz S glass, then bog w/ hi density filler, followed by a 4" x 18" piece of 1/2" foam that I'd previously vacuum bagged with the same glass to both sides of. Wax paper on the outside of the hull and atop the foam board, then a piece of 3/4" plywood outside of both, and used drywall screws to provide the clamping pressure to suck it all up. Worked very well, The bottom is almost back into it's orginal plane, and it's all very solid.
Tonight I'll cut the excess out of the daggerbd opening and bog the lower 1/2 of the well back into place, leaving the repair of the middle of the well for the following day.

Dave

Ok, I'm into it about 2 weeks now. I've got 2 or 3 hrs after work before it gets dark, been pecking away at it for 4 days, then running off to Flathead for 3 days of sailing, and then return for work and more boat repair.
Once the bottom was back in plane and solid, I could clean up the daggerbd opening and slip the lower half of the dggrbd well into position, duct tape the opening, flip the hull upright and just pour some slightly thickened epoxy around the perimeter. Next night I wrapped the joint at the center of the well with a couple of layers of 3" fiberglass tape and compressed it with peel ply. Could of used a larger opening in the side of the hull, or two small ones strategically placed, but it worked ok. The walls of the well lined up pretty nicely, and I only had a little work to do from the inside of the well to make sure it was watertight.
Laid up some 2" wide strips, 3 layers of 5 oz. glass, to form the flanges to support the reattachement of the access panel. Screwed them into place, drilled the access panel for screws, and test fit it. Bogged it all up, laid the panel in the opening and sucked it all together with more drywall screws. Pulled the screws, filled the holes, sanded, and vacuum bagged a single layer of 5 oz S glass over the repair.
Thickened some more epoxy with West's finest fairing filler, laid it over the repair on the bottom, and last night by headlamp I took the newly constructed longboards to it. Looks great, will do the access panel tonight, hope to have her ready for water by the weekend.

more pics

one more, for now.

Dave looks like you are making good progress.
Are you going to repair the dagger board and trunk?

Mike,
The daggerbd was undamaged. The upper half of the well was still in place, I mated it up the undamaged lower half, and wrapped it in place with a few layers of glass. It's done, I'm just making it look pretty now.
Thanks for your input, I usually need a little encouragement to get started.

Dave

And, uhhh... you were asking US for advice? Dude, you've got that under control!

I was thinking the same thing. Nice work.
J

Dave

Keep up the good work I'll let you vacation in Florida this winter at the man shed and work on the TMS-20

Jake - Jeremy must have been our advise!