| Re: This could be it...
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#187858 08/13/09 10:18 AM 08/13/09 10:18 AM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,253 Columbia South Carolina, USA dave mosley
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Posts: 1,253 Columbia South Carolina, USA | are they really that stupid and set in thier ways? Hello,the pinnacle of sailing(also known as the America's Cup) is being sailed on what? And the very same year they drop the multihull because its the least favored "yacht"?
Idiots
The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27
| | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#187859 08/13/09 10:18 AM 08/13/09 10:18 AM | andrewscott
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Unregistered | where this does stink on so many levels.. i found the coverage in china as pathetic... so its not like we are losing much as far as coverage.. but it still sucks on so many other levels ... | | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: catandahalf]
#187864 08/13/09 10:45 AM 08/13/09 10:45 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | The letter from the IOC claims the extra number of athletes involved with an eleventh class would have exceeded their capacity - in so many words. Now that is lame and shame.
It has been suggested that we consider designing and holding a multiclass world championship for the same window and do 'em in with sponsorship and media coverage. The gentleman that shared this news with me a few minutes ago CAN make it happen.
Aloha - B Yet they just included golf and rugby for 2016. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,539269,00.html
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: catandahalf]
#187871 08/13/09 11:03 AM 08/13/09 11:03 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1 Houston, TX broach1320
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Posts: 1 Houston, TX | The letter from the IOC claims the extra number of athletes involved with an eleventh class would have exceeded their capacity - in so many words. Now that is lame and shame.
It has been suggested that we consider designing and holding a multiclass world championship for the same window and do 'em in with sponsorship and media coverage. The gentleman that shared this news with me a few minutes ago CAN make it happen.
Aloha - B I think this is one hell of an idea! make sure the course goes close enough that spectators can see what they are missing by watching 5ktsb vs cats! | | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: broach1320]
#187873 08/13/09 11:11 AM 08/13/09 11:11 AM |
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway Rolf_Nilsen
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Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway | A paralell event would bring none of the pros, as the big dogs are all conscious about running afoul of ISAF and being banned from ISAF events. It is their income so it is understandable. It is a dead end.
With the lack of democracy within ISAF, where the council decides everything and are accountable to none, my hopes for 2016 is as good as non-existent. I think sailing will be slashed from the games in the near future even if all reports from the 2008 are favourable.
Last edited by Rolf_Nilsen; 08/13/09 11:14 AM.
| | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: ]
#187892 08/13/09 11:51 AM 08/13/09 11:51 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | So, What exactly are we loosing without an Olympic catamaran?
We can't argue that the Tornado Olympic Class has been a marketing triumph for catamaran racing. The marketing model which leverages Olympic sailing seems to be pretty lame. I will argue that the sport is going to be better off with strong grass roots support in local fleets of F18's and A class's. (The Hobie 16 serves as a great entry level to world class level of competition. The pinnacle of the sport will be the F18 and A class world championships. Those events are where the sailors that we will aspire to emulate develop their reps.
Our sport will be better because we will be able to actually measure our performance against the pros in the big regattas and this will drive interest. The Tornado Olympic Circuit evolved so that the elite US sailors don't actually compete in the USA. For example, How many US catamaran sailors can say they raced against Johnny and Charlie in the last 12 years? (not counting Charlie's A class sailing).
I think the lesson to be learned is that we cannot let the gap between the rank and file catamaran racer and the elite Olympic sailor grow as large as it has.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: broach1320]
#187903 08/13/09 12:23 PM 08/13/09 12:23 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | The letter from the IOC claims the extra number of athletes involved with an eleventh class would have exceeded their capacity - in so many words. Now that is lame and shame.
It has been suggested that we consider designing and holding a multiclass world championship for the same window and do 'em in with sponsorship and media coverage. The gentleman that shared this news with me a few minutes ago CAN make it happen.
Aloha - B I think this is one hell of an idea! make sure the course goes close enough that spectators can see what they are missing by watching 5ktsb vs cats! I'd be interested. When and where?
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#187906 08/13/09 12:37 PM 08/13/09 12:37 PM |
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 613 New Hampshire, USA windswept
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613 New Hampshire, USA | So, What exactly are we loosing without an Olympic catamaran?
We can't argue that the Tornado Olympic Class has been a marketing triumph for catamaran racing. The marketing model which leverages Olympic sailing seems to be pretty lame. I will argue that the sport is going to be better off with strong grass roots support in local fleets of F18's and A class's. (The Hobie 16 serves as a great entry level to world class level of competition. The pinnacle of the sport will be the F18 and A class world championships. Those events are where the sailors that we will aspire to emulate develop their reps.
Our sport will be better because we will be able to actually measure our performance against the pros in the big regattas and this will drive interest. The Tornado Olympic Circuit evolved so that the elite US sailors don't actually compete in the USA. For example, How many US catamaran sailors can say they raced against Johnny and Charlie in the last 12 years? (not counting Charlie's A class sailing).
I think the lesson to be learned is that we cannot let the gap between the rank and file catamaran racer and the elite Olympic sailor grow as large as it has.
Until about 1996 the Tornado class in this country was actually pretty strong with national regattas drawing as many as 100 boats. At the 1992 OCR in Marblehead we had 87 Tornados, Nationals at Quincy drew 96, 92 trials were around 90 same with Savanah. It is after Savanah that the class basically went into a tailspin. Newr platforms and classes available?
Tom Siders A-Cat USA-79 Tornado US775
| | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: windswept]
#187912 08/13/09 12:51 PM 08/13/09 12:51 PM |
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway Rolf_Nilsen
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Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway | 92 trials were around 90 same with Savanah. It is after Savanah that the class basically went into a tailspin. Newr platforms and classes available? Money and professionalism. Up til the 90s you could do a campaign as a part time or intense hobby affair. Then professionalism struck and nothing but Marstrøm gear was good enough at the same time as the bar was raised sky-high. That was when the decline came about. At least this is my theory. | | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#187921 08/13/09 01:29 PM 08/13/09 01:29 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | The local fleets collapsed when the elite semi pro sailors separated their equipment and their events from the rank and file sailor.
In the USA...they changed the policies for "making the team" you no longer had to sail the US regattas.. You headed to europe to train and race. At the end... the class had a three day NA's before the ISAF grade one event in Miami... (the OCR) and that was about it.
This is not surprising. Vanderbilt and the Yacht Clubs figured out a long time ago that professionalism would ruin the local racing scene. They founded the yacht clubs on Corinthian principals. YC's ban advertising on the sails. They frown on yachts named after your business. These rules are in place so that most view the playing field as fair and fun. Once the Tornado game escalated so that the budgets were 200 K plus ... why bother playing.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: dave mosley]
#187997 08/13/09 10:24 PM 08/13/09 10:24 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | are they really that stupid and set in thier ways? Hello,the pinnacle of sailing(also known as the America's Cup) is being sailed on what? And the very same year they drop the multihull because its the least favored "yacht"?
Idiots The Olympic regatta is a competition between athletes that should sail only ODs or SMODs, while this AC is a development class competition to check who is willing to spend more. From a rational point of view, the AC is irrelevant to the choice of Olympic equipment. From an emotional point of view (politics, PR, sales, sponsorship, etc.), the AC will make the sailing world angry about the Tornado exclusion, favoring its future reinstatement. This is already happening. Also, discussions about the exclusion of the T will make a great "filling" during the AC transmission, whenever they postpone a start or race. John could probably refresh Gary Jobson's memory just before the match...
Luiz
| | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#188005 08/14/09 04:07 AM 08/14/09 04:07 AM |
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia Tornado_ALIVE
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia | Money and professionalism. Up til the 90s you could do a campaign as a part time or intense hobby affair. Then professionalism struck and nothing but Marstrøm gear was good enough at the same time as the bar was raised sky-high. That was when the decline came about. At least this is my theory. And how would this change if another class was selected. Sadly Olypmic sailing has reached an unhealthy level of professionalism and bringing in the Tiger will not fix this. It may however bring this unhealthy influence into the F18 class which would not be in the members best interest. It would help fatten the pockets of Hobiecat though. Could also have a VERY negative effect on the Wildcat. If the Tiger was the Olympic class and I was to buy an F18, I would choose a Tiger without question unless it was significantly more expensive. An F18 class selected as an Olympic class would effectively give that manufacture and unfair advantage in the F18 class. In Australia, if sailing was a business, this would be a breach of the Trade Practices Act and Hobiecat would be having a little chat with the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) | | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: Tornado_ALIVE]
#188008 08/14/09 04:30 AM 08/14/09 04:30 AM |
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,383 Kingston SE South Australia JeffS
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Posts: 1,383 Kingston SE South Australia | There's a thread on Catsailor.net that says the vote went against cats, has anybody else heard whats happening? regards
Jeff Southall Current boats Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider Nacra 18 Square Arrow 1576
| | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: Tornado_ALIVE]
#188010 08/14/09 05:05 AM 08/14/09 05:05 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,203 uk TEAMVMG
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Posts: 1,203 uk | [quote=Tornado_ALIVE If the Tiger was the Olympic class and I was to buy an F18, I would choose a Tiger without question unless it was significantly more expensive.
An F18 class selected as an Olympic class would effectively give that manufacture and unfair advantage in the F18 class. [/quote]
Why? Because you think you will make the Olympics? the 'One design olympic Tiger' will soon not be able to keep up in the F18 fleet. The other current F18s will certainly undergo developement to keep them competitive in F18 for a few more years before they are superceded by a replacement design. I know that sails/rudders are fairly easy to swap from one event to another, but the olympic sailors will want to race their one design boats and not get pushed around by faster F18s while they are doing that. So, the only reason to buy a tiger will to be to race other tigers.
Paul
teamvmg.weebly.com
| | | Re: This could be it...
[Re: Tornado_ALIVE]
#188016 08/14/09 06:09 AM 08/14/09 06:09 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | It will give the Tiger an unfair advantage also in the class from a sales point off view. Why would you by an Infusion, Capricorn or a Wildcat when you can buy the Olympic class. Better resale due to a large market. Your boat is also sailed by, developed by and tuned by the best.
I am an AHPC and a Nacra fan, but even I would buy a Tiger over the others if it became the Olympic class. TA, I think you are missing the point of the Hobie prop to the ISAF/IOC. They want to promote the one design Tiger. If they want to do that, they will have to FREEZE development at some point. They are proposing a laser with 2 hulls. Any developments are very small and take an age to get adopted. a "proper SMOD" as per laser. Not a "development Hobie tiger" in the same type as the Tornado, but 2 feet shorter and thinner.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | |
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