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Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle #189608
08/30/09 10:06 PM
08/30/09 10:06 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline OP
veteran
JeffS  Offline OP
veteran

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
It sounds a bit much to spend on an old boat but this happened to me in Feb this year at a fun regatta in a nice bay not far from home.
We on our older Nacra 5.8 were last to leave on a triangle course inside a bay in a stern chase involving cats and trailer sailors. When we left there was only one other cat left to round the first mark on the other side of the bay and it was around 18 knots. When we got to the first mark the wind suddenly changed and hit a sustained 32 knots according to my daughter watching the indicator inside the clubrooms at the time. This turned the first mark into a lea shore with steep 10ft breaking waves that were washing our legs off the back of the boat as we reached along the waves jumping them to get away from the breaking waves. We were still in control when the sidestay broke. This was okay we freed all the rigging, the waves were too big to do much with them as they kept getting washed across the boat so we had to keep jumping the mast, we then tied the mast and sails to the back of the boat. We drifted towards shore until the rescue boat found us, when they took us into tow I wound the rope around the dolphin striker about 4 times with a double wrap around my hands to hold it. The rescue boat went over the first wave and pulled us half through it due to the wave catching the sails which before I could release pulled my hands into the knot fortunately the rope broke so all I got was sore hands and a bent dolphin striker. The rescue boat then said we were too close to the rocks so we had to let the mast and sails go or take our chances getting past the reef, as we let the rigging go a wave pushed the end of the mast through the side of the cat, we attached another rescue line around the dolphin striker to the traveler and we were getting towed. Then a report came through that there was a cat found minus the crew and the race was abandoned so we were asked permission for them to jettison us and search which we readily agreed. When the rescue boat was out of sight we noticed that due to no sails dragging in the water we were heading in the along shore drift towards the reef at the mouth of the bay with the bigger waves. Another boat coming to join the search found the missing sailor 1km outside the search area. When the rescue boat came back to us we weren’t far from the reef but they got us in tow and it took 90 minutes to get us back on a 15ft towline, each time the cabin cruiser went up a wave it lost forward momentum and we surfed down to come up next to it with waves breaking over us the whole time, this action of the tow rope demolished our bow foil. By the time we got back I had hypothermia and the rescue boat crew were badly seasick. Our Nacra 5.8 had no mast, sails, stays, one hull had been holed, the bow foil was ruined, the dolphin striker was wrecked, the traveler track was twisted up and ruined, the top of the decks were partially ground away by the mast sliding over it. Once in the clubrooms they couldn’t believe how happy I was even though my boat was a wreck but I was relieved to get home in one piece after a potentially life threatening experience. When I posted on an Australian cat sight questions about replacing the sails, mast etc a guy got stuck into me because catamaran insurance premiums will go up due to my claim.
All this happened because I didn’t replace older sidestays even though there was no rust stain when I purchased the boat, I always will now.


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: JeffS] #189609
08/30/09 10:34 PM
08/30/09 10:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
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Dazz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Why is it we always learn the hard way....

$50 diamond wire broke = $4000 damage
$150 dolphin striker = $2500 damage + 30 man hours work.

I replace all wires every 2 years now.

Last edited by Dazz; 08/30/09 10:34 PM.

C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: Dazz] #189611
08/30/09 11:46 PM
08/30/09 11:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Todd_Sails  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
IMHO, if you're using your boat much, 2 years is too long between standing rigging replacements.



F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: Todd_Sails] #189612
08/31/09 12:03 AM
08/31/09 12:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
In a case like that there is too much of a personal risk to save property. If it were me being rescued or the rescuer I would have jumped/asked to jump into the water and get picked up by the rescue boat.

Money can never replace a serious injury or a life. Glad you made it out OK. Boats are replaceable no big deal.

Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: Robi] #189615
08/31/09 01:09 AM
08/31/09 01:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
old hand
ncik  Offline
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Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
Surprised the rescue boat left when they were already engaged in a rescue! Should not happen. One definite rescue is better than 2 failed rescues.

Last edited by ncik; 08/31/09 01:09 AM.
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: ncik] #189616
08/31/09 04:00 AM
08/31/09 04:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
I try to replace rigging every two years and forestay pigtails every year. That is for salt water usage. I don't know about lake sailing which is not near as harsh.

FYI: I have had brand new rigging fail too.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: ncik] #189617
08/31/09 04:07 AM
08/31/09 04:07 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
New stays can also break.

In those conditions if the rescue boat wanted to leave my boat, I would have gone with them. Especially now that I sit in my nice and warm office with no personal risk of any loss. Food for thought.

Glad to hear that you came out of the situation with no personal injury and "only" a messed up boat!


Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: ncik] #189620
08/31/09 04:37 AM
08/31/09 04:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Originally Posted by ncik
Surprised the rescue boat left when they were already engaged in a rescue! Should not happen. One definite rescue is better than 2 failed rescues.


If man-overboard / lost crew; all go. I would have gone with the rescue crew - as said hardware can be replaced.

I would also have gone to HELP; Additional factors for the inso co; I LEFT MY BOAT, to help save a life.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: scooby_simon] #189629
08/31/09 07:50 AM
08/31/09 07:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 67
Daytona Beach
Jeff_Bowers Offline
journeyman
Jeff_Bowers  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 67
Daytona Beach
Coated or uncoated wire? I went to uncoated and I get many years out of my rigging. The big plus is that I can see if there is a problem.


Jeff Bowers
Mystere 6.0(sometimes XL)
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: Jeff_Bowers] #189693
08/31/09 11:51 AM
08/31/09 11:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Tornado  Offline
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Vancouver, BC
Glad to hear it came out alright.

Question: Why did you tow from the dolphin striker? That is not a strong point when pulled fore/aft. Much better to take some wraps around the main beam. Ideally, using a bridle "Y" line off the bows or main beam is the best solution. Losing the dolphin striker could potentially fail the main beam, thought in this case losing the rig loads probably save the beam.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: Tornado] #189699
08/31/09 12:02 PM
08/31/09 12:02 PM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



We drifted towards shore until the rescue boat found us, when they took us into tow I wound the rope around the dolphin striker about 4 times with a double wrap around my hands to hold it.

Originally Posted by Tornado
Why did you tow from the dolphin striker?


I would not hold onto any towline and never wrap it around my hand...

Last edited by andrewscott; 08/31/09 12:02 PM.
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: ] #189702
08/31/09 12:39 PM
08/31/09 12:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 59
Dewey, AZ
Flip57 Offline
journeyman
Flip57  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 59
Dewey, AZ
The tow line should be secured to the vessel being towed, then the tow vessel should adjust the length of the line equal to the wavelength (or two or three wavelengths). That way both vessels are climbing and surfing the waves simultaineously. This lessens the shock/slack cycle every time you crest a wave. I have done this when pulling a power boat in 4' seas with my power boat. It may take some time to start and stop every time you make an adjustment but it is easier on the equipment when you get it right.

Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: Flip57] #189815
09/01/09 01:55 AM
09/01/09 01:55 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline OP
veteran
JeffS  Offline OP
veteran

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
I really put that story together in response to a post I saw about repairing a corroded mast base, it struck me that I had repaired a corroded mast base on the 5.8 not long before the stay failed. It shows how a little problem can get a lot bigger and inconvenience a lot of people. When the rescue boat left us they asked our permission and that other sailor was the priority, we probably should have abandoned the boat and gone with them. I didnt have a hole in the tramp near the mast for the rope to go around the beam and considered cutting a hole in the tramp. Its a good suggestion to make a Y bridle from each side of the beam I would do that in future with the jib sheet. My current boat has a bridle I would just tie onto.
My side stay broke well down inside the swage where you would never see it, it had a small rust stain the same as my near new 5.7 stays have a small rust stain now.


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: JeffS] #189870
09/01/09 11:32 AM
09/01/09 11:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Tornado  Offline
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Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
You can tow from near one end of the main beam, inner gunwale side. No need to balance it by a second line on the other side. You can easily control off centerline force on the boat by steering (assuming you've got rudders and center/dagger boards help).

We were towed in two weeks ago from ~8 miles out in the channel after a 6+ hr race round the island when the winds died. We had an I20 in front of us on the tow line. We tied off to his rear beam, left end and I wrapped the end off to our right side main beam end. Worked well.

BTW, I like to wrap, not tie off the line to the boat...just in case you need to release quickly. We hand-hold the loose end...all load is taken by the wraps.



Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: Tornado] #189871
09/01/09 11:37 AM
09/01/09 11:37 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by Tornado
BTW, I like to wrap, not tie off the line to the boat...just in case you need to release quickly. We hand-hold the loose end...all load is taken by the wraps.


good advice

Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: ] #189877
09/01/09 11:59 AM
09/01/09 11:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
old hand
pepin  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
Originally Posted by andrewscott
Originally Posted by Tornado
BTW, I like to wrap, not tie off the line to the boat...just in case you need to release quickly. We hand-hold the loose end...all load is taken by the wraps.
good advice
Good advice as long as you never ever wrap it around your hand like the original poster did.

Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: pepin] #189901
09/01/09 01:26 PM
09/01/09 01:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
We've all been there, even on newer boats. In my case, I have no excuse, except for ignorance (aka "lessons learned")...

On the H16, there is a split tramp, so it's easy to tie a tow line to the crossbar. Of course, I used the dolphin striker once and it got bent.

On the H16, there are no "dead end" fittings (the kind that terminate in a thimble). They are all just wrapped around a stainless loop and use crimp connectors. Very easy to inspect for damage. Of course, one time, I had a broken wire and ignored it, dropped the mast in a regatta a few weeks later. I think this was caused by my storage "technique" (just wrap it up and tie it down).

So now, I am extremely careful about how my wires lie before securing them on the trailer. I avoid kinks, small-radius bends, etc. Basically, if the wire is fighting me, I stop and do it over until everything lies down nicely.

Mike

Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: brucat] #190003
09/02/09 11:25 AM
09/02/09 11:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Todd_Sails  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Speaking of wires while storing or trailering;

On my last boat, (in the avatar), When the boat was on the trailer, and the mast was down, I would only have one bend in the shrouds/trap wires. I ran them forward, so that the one bend was held by a bungee cord to the spreader on the mast while on the trailer. This seemed the best method I used thru all the years for wire life, ease of use and breakdown, etc. So, one bugee, thru 6 cables, which hooked to the spreader. Never had a problem doing this, even trailering long distances.

Now I realize, if you have a carbon mast, many people just take the wires off while trailering.


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: Todd_Sails] #190021
09/02/09 01:57 PM
09/02/09 01:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline
addict
TheManShed  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
I lost my rig once from a bad stay. Way too old and I keep using it. Replaced all rigging then lost it again a few months later from a bad crimp on the new rigging. Sometimes you just can't win. Both times nobody hurt and no damage.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: Why replace sidestays, forestays and bridle [Re: TheManShed] #190058
09/02/09 11:48 PM
09/02/09 11:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 140
Brisbane Queensland- Australia
Q
Qb2 Offline
member
Qb2  Offline
member
Q

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 140
Brisbane Queensland- Australia
what are the signs for a bad crimp? wire easily moved in the thimble or what?

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