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Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: Dan_Delave] #189576
08/30/09 09:36 AM
08/30/09 09:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 42
Ocala, FL
ocalacat Offline OP
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ocalacat  Offline OP
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Ocala, FL
Should I be using aluminum rivets?


Jody Phillips
81 H16
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: ocalacat] #189582
08/30/09 11:14 AM
08/30/09 11:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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pgp  Offline
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I've always used stainless. They were recommended by the dealer way back when.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: ocalacat] #189584
08/30/09 11:17 AM
08/30/09 11:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by ocalacat
Should I be using aluminum rivets?

Stainless rivets and seal the mast base to the mast with 3M 4200 sealant (usually available at wal-mart). If you use 5200, you probably won't be able to get the mast out again.

either the 4200 or 5200 will help work against galvanic corrosion.

Use stainless (or monel) rivets where there is a high loading. Aluminum rivets are very weak.


Jake Kohl
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: ocalacat] #189585
08/30/09 11:54 AM
08/30/09 11:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Originally Posted by ocalacat
So here are a few pictures of the damage. Any ideas on what I need to do?


Wow, I've never seen that happen, but it is a good thing that it did and you weren't hurt and the mast wasn't damaged.

Like everyone says, just seal it well (4200) and drill new holes for SS or Monel rivets.

I wish I had been thinking because we were cat sailing at Cedar Key yesterday and that might have been within your range. I may be back down here in a few weeks. Probably Sept 19-20 weekend.

You might think ahead to the Cedar Key Regatta coming up in October (10/24-25). You don't need to be a racer to participate. It will be low key and I think mostly H16 and TheMightyHobie18 folks with a few of the remaining Prindles.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: ocalacat] #189586
08/30/09 12:04 PM
08/30/09 12:04 PM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
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D



Originally Posted by ocalacat
So here are a few pictures of the damage. Any ideas on what I need to do?


Jody:

Same thing happened to my boom on my H-17. I had to cut about 1" or so off and drill new holes and get new end cap. After that no problem. Just metal stress I guess.

Doug

Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: ocalacat] #189590
08/30/09 02:51 PM
08/30/09 02:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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Originally Posted by ocalacat
Should I be using aluminum rivets?

I'll break from the pack and say use aluminum rivets. They don't need to take tremendous load under normal usage, and should something go wrong, it's better to shear the rivets than rip the mast extrusion.

Regards,
Eric

Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: Isotope235] #189592
08/30/09 03:09 PM
08/30/09 03:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Originally Posted by Isotope42
Originally Posted by ocalacat
Should I be using aluminum rivets?

I'll break from the pack and say use aluminum rivets. They don't need to take tremendous load under normal usage, and should something go wrong, it's better to shear the rivets than rip the mast extrusion.

Regards,
Eric


I agree and am sure AL will be fine. They are much easier to pop and you can get them and a basic tool at the hardware store.

However, OE would be Monel and I supose there might be a reason Hobie did that. They use Monel in all applications, loaded and not loaded.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: Isotope235] #189593
08/30/09 03:29 PM
08/30/09 03:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Originally Posted by Isotope42
Originally Posted by ocalacat
Should I be using aluminum rivets?

I'll break from the pack and say use aluminum rivets. They don't need to take tremendous load under normal usage, and should something go wrong, it's better to shear the rivets than rip the mast extrusion.

Regards,
Eric


Gonna take a flier - huh? laugh


Jake Kohl
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: Jake] #189600
08/30/09 05:57 PM
08/30/09 05:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
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Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
I have had that happen on my old Prindle 16. Just clean it up, load it up with 5200 and rivet her in. I would also check the rest of the mast closely. Chances are if you are seeing that there...you will see other areas that need attention. Also make sure you seal any possible holes with the 5200. If you capsize and the mast leaks, the boat will go turtle. We recently stripped my SC 20 mast bare and sealed everything with some special aircraft sealant Rob uses.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
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Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: cyberspeed] #189601
08/30/09 07:27 PM
08/30/09 07:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 42
Ocala, FL
ocalacat Offline OP
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Ocala, FL
Well I started the fix before I got all the feedback and I used aluminum rivets, but I don't think this sucker is going anywhere now grin

Here it is all set up! So I feel pretty confidant about the whole stepping the mast solo deal, now I just have to figure out how to sail her.

I do have a few questions about some things so I'll post some more pictures tomorrow and see if you guys can help me figure a few things out.

The jib looks funny to me.I don't think I have something quite right?

Attached Files
Mast Base 006.jpg (155 downloads)
Mast Base 009.jpg (155 downloads)
Mast Base 023.jpg (153 downloads)

Jody Phillips
81 H16
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: ocalacat] #189606
08/30/09 08:05 PM
08/30/09 08:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
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You are good to go, now get back to the lake ASAP!

Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: ocalacat] #189607
08/30/09 08:24 PM
08/30/09 08:24 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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Originally Posted by ocalacat
Should I be using aluminum rivets?

Monel rivetts will cost you a little bit more but they're non reactive with the metals your putting them into so if you use them this wont happen again.
The state of that corrosion would make me get the mast thouroughly checked and if needed re-rivetted, the sidestays, forestay and bridle replaced.
It sounds a bit much to spend on an older boat but if you read my post I'm putting up now about me sidestay breakage this year it may encourage you.


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: ocalacat] #189622
08/31/09 06:05 AM
08/31/09 06:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 223
Western New York
wyatt Offline
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Sad Story! Certainly one that demonstrates the passion of someone to get on the water. Your plan started right, but I can't believe there is no one around Ocala that could have helped you. We are lucky here in New York (even though we have to tear our boats down in another month): we get to leave our boats set up sitting on trailers; we have our own tractor to drop the boats in the water and we have on-site storage for our wetsuits, shells and gear. I honestly don't think I would own a catamaran anymore if I had to set it up every time I went out. \

We go to Florida to sail every year for about a month, and I watch people drive up to the shoreline and completely set up for a day's sailing, and I always feels sorry for them because they are missing a sense of the freedom that comes with just showing up with your cooler and choosing which sail and clothing to use and shoving off.

Anyway,Good Luck. It sounds like you'll be able to get replacement mast steps and rivet them on. There is a device you can buy to make your task easier; it's easy-step or something like that; it use to sell for about $110. I guess by now its quite a bit more.

Keep sailing; it's more than fun, it becomes a way of life.

Wyatt

Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort [Re: ocalacat] #189860
09/01/09 09:46 AM
09/01/09 09:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
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cyberspeed  Offline
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Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Hi OcalaCat,

Sailing off of Singer Island Saturday. Bring the boat down and I can show you the ropes. Full Moon and you can camp on Peanut Island.

Anyone else interested come on down. Free launchiing at Phil Foster Park, less than 1 mile from the Palm Beach Inlet and less than 1/2 mile from Peanut Island.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort [Re: cyberspeed] #190147
09/03/09 02:19 PM
09/03/09 02:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 302
Raleigh/ Wrightsville Beach NC
MarkW_F18 Offline
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Raleigh/ Wrightsville Beach NC
I remember the same thing happening to me on my first H16. The first time, the cast aluminum housing broke just like yours.. I re-drilled 4 holes and fixed it with aluminum rivets but it occurred again. This time the rivets sheared off.

What I learned with raising my H16 mast.... I now have a second person push down on the bottom of the mast to push it into the mast base housing. Or if I'm by myself, Once I get the mast up on my shoulder, I pull the lower part of the mast up and back with one hand as you lift the mast with the other. The 16 mast step is designed where the lever part can get pinched and the torque of raising the mast will rip the mast plate out of the mast... Using the H14 hole for the step pin helps a little but it is just a Bad design.

For this reason, aluminum rivets don't hold well.


Mark Williams
F18 H16
http://emsa-sailing.org
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort [Re: MarkW_F18] #190238
09/04/09 07:44 AM
09/04/09 07:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Originally Posted by MarkW_F18

For this reason, aluminum rivets don't hold well.


So there you are. Those rivets are under a lot of strain. MONEL!


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: ocalacat] #190280
09/04/09 12:16 PM
09/04/09 12:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 125
Clinton, Mississippi
rattlenhum Offline
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Clinton, Mississippi
Originally Posted by ocalacat
The jib looks funny to me.I don't think I have something quite right?


Hard to tell exactly....are your shrouds REALLY loose? Once the jib is up, you need to pull even harder on the jib halyard to bring the mast forward and tighten the rig. This'll make that jib hang a little prettier, too. If the mast won't rotate, you've tightened too much. Under sail, your leeward shroud will still be pretty loose...that's normal.

Now go and switch those aluminum rivets in that mast base with SS or Monel like their supposed to be!


Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: rattlenhum] #190302
09/04/09 02:47 PM
09/04/09 02:47 PM
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Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Originally Posted by rattlenhum
Originally Posted by ocalacat
The jib looks funny to me.I don't think I have something quite right?


Hard to tell exactly....are your shrouds REALLY loose? Once the jib is up, you need to pull even harder on the jib halyard to bring the mast forward and tighten the rig.



If you tension the jib halyard to the point the mast shrouds tighten/mast leans further forward...you will stretch/break the jib luff when you tension the mainsheet. You don't want the sail luff to be acting like a forestay!

Always tighten the mast shrouds first, getting the rig tight enough to reduce forestay slack. Then tension the jib halyard to take wrinkles out (and not much more).



Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: Tornado] #190307
09/04/09 03:40 PM
09/04/09 03:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
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Originally Posted by Tornado
Originally Posted by rattlenhum
Originally Posted by ocalacat
The jib looks funny to me.I don't think I have something quite right?


Hard to tell exactly....are your shrouds REALLY loose? Once the jib is up, you need to pull even harder on the jib halyard to bring the mast forward and tighten the rig.



If you tension the jib halyard to the point the mast shrouds tighten/mast leans further forward...you will stretch/break the jib luff when you tension the mainsheet. You don't want the sail luff to be acting like a forestay!

Always tighten the mast shrouds first, getting the rig tight enough to reduce forestay slack. Then tension the jib halyard to take wrinkles out (and not much more).



Mike,

The Hobie 16 has a wire in the luff of the jib to become the forestay.

Re: First time out, Sort of! Man those masts are tough, Sort of! [Re: Dlennard] #190318
09/04/09 05:07 PM
09/04/09 05:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 42
Ocala, FL
ocalacat Offline OP
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ocalacat  Offline OP
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Ocala, FL
So, should I not take this out until I replace the rivets with SS? I was hoping to finally get this thing on the water tomorrow.

Next question and this may sound really stupid, but how do I get the tiller extension from one side to the other with the main sheet in the way? Am I missing something here?


Jody Phillips
81 H16
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