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A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd #191521
09/21/09 08:11 PM
09/21/09 08:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
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Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
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When trapezing down wind, you can not gybe from the wire. I'm pretty sure it is impossible if you want to gybe quickly. When you tack, the boat turns up into you. When you gybe, it goes bye bye, and you're left hanging in space.

I learned this little tid-bit on Saturday. Port/starboard situation, I had no rights, and waited too long to determine that collision was imminent with out action. I pulled the tiller, and was unable to get on the tramp before it went over. mad Bad start, and I was at the back of the fleet at the windward mark, when I tipped I had made it to about the middle of the fleet though.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: Karl_Brogger] #191523
09/21/09 08:16 PM
09/21/09 08:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 531
Lake Murray SC
FasterDamnit Offline
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FasterDamnit  Offline
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Lake Murray SC
So thanks to good ol' inertia, you watched the boat turn away as the space between the hull and your feet steadily increased?


Race cheap, race faster, Damnit!

E-Scow
24' ULDB

18HT hulls plus Gcat 5.7 rig = 18GT!
Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: FasterDamnit] #191524
09/21/09 08:17 PM
09/21/09 08:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
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Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by FasterDamnit
So thanks to good ol' inertia, you watched the boat turn away as the space between the hull and your feet steadily increased?


Yep. Seems pretty simple when you think about it. I like learning things the hard way, or at least thats the only way that stuff sticks. whistle

Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: Karl_Brogger] #191525
09/21/09 08:20 PM
09/21/09 08:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 531
Lake Murray SC
FasterDamnit Offline
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Doing it is waaaay cooler than than just cogitating. Bravo!


Race cheap, race faster, Damnit!

E-Scow
24' ULDB

18HT hulls plus Gcat 5.7 rig = 18GT!
Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: Karl_Brogger] #191529
09/21/09 08:53 PM
09/21/09 08:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I
Isotope235 Offline
old hand
Isotope235  Offline
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Hillsborough, NC USA
That centrifugal force (even if it is a myth) can be a bitch.

Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: Karl_Brogger] #191536
09/21/09 10:11 PM
09/21/09 10:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Don_Atchley Offline
enthusiast
Don_Atchley  Offline
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Seattle,Wa
Karl,
Where are you standing on the boat during the jibe?
If you are on the back of the boat, out on the wire, and running downwind; wouldn't you pull the tiller and thereby drive the sterns toward your feet?

Regardless, I'd recommend some foot straps where ever you happen to be standing...


Hobie Tiger 2003
Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: Don_Atchley] #191538
09/21/09 10:54 PM
09/21/09 10:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
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Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Don_Atchley
Karl,
Where are you standing on the boat during the jibe?
If you are on the back of the boat, out on the wire, and running downwind; wouldn't you pull the tiller and thereby drive the sterns toward your feet?

Regardless, I'd recommend some foot straps where ever you happen to be standing...


Back foot was just a bit forward of the rear crossbar.
It didn't work that way for me. The boat just drives away from you.

Been meaning to order a set of foot straps, but trying to get a new boat as well. I'm not sure how much more money I want to dump into it if I'm not going to keep it.

I think to wire well downwind single handed you really need to be on top of what's going on, and plan ahead well.

Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: Karl_Brogger] #191562
09/22/09 06:13 AM
09/22/09 06:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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TEAMVMG  Offline
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uk
I will concur..
As a helm that was heavier than my crew sailing the nacF18 [which is a bitch downwind in a breeze], i went through a spell of doing the trapezing downwind - OK in a straight line, but the corners did get a bit messy! experiment abandoned. problem solved by purchase of infusion!


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: TEAMVMG] #191598
09/22/09 08:10 AM
09/22/09 08:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Originally Posted by TEAMVMG

experiment abandoned. problem solved by purchase of infusion!


It does make the trip downhill a bit more pleasant.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: Karl_Brogger] #191601
09/22/09 08:16 AM
09/22/09 08:16 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
When trapezing down wind, you can not gybe from the wire. I'm pretty sure it is impossible if you want to gybe quickly. When you tack, the boat turns up into you. When you gybe, it goes bye bye, and you're left hanging in space.


Karl, try this... next time stuff the bows just before the massive gybe.. and peter pan around the forestay to the otherside...

Please report back and let us know if that helps.

Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: ] #191611
09/22/09 09:01 AM
09/22/09 09:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
Originally Posted by andrewscott
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
When trapezing down wind, you can not gybe from the wire. I'm pretty sure it is impossible if you want to gybe quickly. When you tack, the boat turns up into you. When you gybe, it goes bye bye, and you're left hanging in space.


Karl, try this... next time stuff the bows just before the massive gybe.. and peter pan around the forestay to the otherside...

Please report back and let us know if that helps.


Just as you Peter Pan to the front stay, dip your feet in as far you can go into the watery mass below you, I bet the boat sails on past and scoops you back up to almost where you were, it works a real treat and I'm now well practiced in the art.

Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: TEAMVMG] #191620
09/22/09 10:13 AM
09/22/09 10:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
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WA, ID, MT
Originally Posted by TEAMVMG
I will concur..
As a helm that was heavier than my crew sailing the nacF18 [which is a bitch downwind in a breeze], i went through a spell of doing the trapezing downwind - OK in a straight line, but the corners did get a bit messy! experiment abandoned. problem solved by purchase of infusion!


Can you elaborate on the Nacra F18's downwind behaviour? I buried the bow a couple of times under spinnaker recently, in about 20 kts of wind, much to my surprize. I'm new to this boat, and I've not had this much difficulty with the other spin boats I've driven. Thanks!

Dave

Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: ] #191625
09/22/09 10:27 AM
09/22/09 10:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
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Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by andrewscott
Karl, try this... next time stuff the bows just before the massive gybe.. and peter pan around the forestay to the otherside...

Please report back and let us know if that helps.


Awesome! You should know, I may unhook the bungee and try this just for entertainment value. laugh

Except I better be haulin' the mail, cause I'd have to clear the spinnaker as well.

Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: davefarmer] #191626
09/22/09 10:31 AM
09/22/09 10:31 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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West coast of Norway
Musto Skiff guys seem to be able to handle the spi downwind decently, so why not cats.

[Linked Image]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musto_Skiff

Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: davefarmer] #191627
09/22/09 10:31 AM
09/22/09 10:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Karl, I have found that if you put both feet out, toes up, you can usually water-ski along side the boat as you steer the boat, then you just hop up onto the tramp, toss the tiller out back, cross under, switch hands with the spin sheet, hook up, grab the tiller and jump back out on the other gybe, sheet it and go.

Nothing to it...


Blade F16
#777
Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: Timbo] #191636
09/22/09 11:19 AM
09/22/09 11:19 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by Timbo
Karl, I have found that if you put both feet out, toes up, you can usually water-ski along side the boat as you steer the boat, then you just hop up onto the tramp, toss the tiller out back, cross under, switch hands with the spin sheet, hook up, grab the tiller and jump back out on the other gybe, sheet it and go. Nothing to it...


Seems easy enough

Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: ] #191656
09/22/09 01:12 PM
09/22/09 01:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Timbo didn't mention adjusting the daggarboards while gybing, but maybe that's covered in his "Gybing 102" class...


Jay

Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: waterbug_wpb] #191659
09/22/09 01:32 PM
09/22/09 01:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
I didn't want to overload him...

I forgot to mention that as you come in off the wire, of course you have to be trimming the spin sheet, I usually put my sheet hand up over my head and then around my back just before I unhook with my other hand and pass under the boom.

And wearing sneakers 3 sizes too large will help with the waterskiing.

Footstraps will just slow you down when you attempt this manouver...and they add too much weight, so save yourself the $30 and just "ski" through the gybe.


Blade F16
#777
Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: Timbo] #191664
09/22/09 01:44 PM
09/22/09 01:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 186
Chattanooga, TN
jody Offline
member
jody  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 186
Chattanooga, TN
I am so excited that the GCs will be soon and I can witness the master at work. Can you help me practice this on Sat before racing starts so I can be in top form for the week?


Jody Blade F16 724 Plays with Sharp Objects
Re: A tip for the single-handed spinnaker crowd [Re: davefarmer] #191668
09/22/09 02:15 PM
09/22/09 02:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
veteran
TEAMVMG  Offline
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uk
Originally Posted by davefarmer
Originally Posted by TEAMVMG
I will concur..
As a helm that was heavier than my crew sailing the nacF18 [which is a bitch downwind in a breeze], i went through a spell of doing the trapezing downwind - OK in a straight line, but the corners did get a bit messy! experiment abandoned. problem solved by purchase of infusion!


Can you elaborate on the Nacra F18's downwind behaviour? I buried the bow a couple of times under spinnaker recently, in about 20 kts of wind, much to my surprize. I'm new to this boat, and I've not had this much difficulty with the other spin boats I've driven. Thanks!

Dave


I think that the F18 is one of the fastest hull shapes on flat water. we managed to win the UK inland champs 2 years on the trot! I would like to see an Infusion rig on one to see how it compares today.

There was something about the lack of rocker or the finess of the bows that meant that every time the boat was at low speed in wind and waves [ bearing off, gybing or the frickin' back beam slamming a wave]the bows went down.
I hate the feeling when you are sat a bit too far to windward before a start and you know that you have to bear right down and risk a dumb butt pitchpole as everyone else is sailing off. I got over this and the windward mark bear off by staying on the trapeze as long as i could [Risking the 'Peter Pan'], but coming out of a gybe or the back beam slamming - you just knew things were about to get lively and possibly messy! Ok so this may just be a quirk, but not boat is fast with 6' of bow trawling along under water.


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
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