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Question for US F18 Sailors #195196
11/03/09 07:20 AM
11/03/09 07:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
What is keeping you from getting a measurement certificate for your boat?


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: David Ingram] #195201
11/03/09 08:45 AM
11/03/09 08:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
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ksurfer2  Offline
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K

Joined: Oct 2005
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tampa, fl
Can I answer a question with a question?

How does one get their boat measured?

Is there a cost to get a boat measured? If so, where does that money go and what is it used for?

Why get my boat measured? It's a stock boat with stock sails and unless it's required at regattas (which at this time, it is not, at least here in the states), why do it?

The last question was rhetorical.

I see the argument for measurement and agree that it will be needed as the fleet grows, but am playing devils advocate here. If we start measuring boats, how will unmeasured boats be handled when they show up to regattas? I don't think we're at a point yet where we can tell folks that they can't come out and play.



If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: ksurfer2] #195208
11/03/09 09:47 AM
11/03/09 09:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by ksurfer2

How does one get their boat measured?



You make arrangements with the measuerer in your area, go to http://www.naf18.com -> Measurement to see a list of the willing. If you would like Karl I can knock out all the boats in the compound at GYC this weekend, I'll be there measuring F16's anyway. Yes, measuring F16's!

Originally Posted by ksurfer2

Is there a cost to get a boat measured? If so, where does that money go and what is it used for?


There is, and you can get the cost info at http://www.naf18.com -> Measurement, I'm working with the chief measurer to see if we have any wiggle room with the cost. At a minimum we must cover the costs of the stickers. A small piece of the fee goes to the measurer and the rest goes to the class. This money is then used for things like shipping scales and stickers. Keep in mind almost all your membership fee goes straight to the International class every year.

Originally Posted by ksurfer2

Why get my boat measured? It's a stock boat with stock sails and unless it's required at regattas (which at this time, it is not, at least here in the states), why do it?

The last question was rhetorical.


Although rhetorical still a very valid question. Measuring the boats isn't going to uncover a watershed of boats that are out of spec, but as you know sails can vary and as people begin to embrace the options formula brings (after market boards) it will become even more critical that we have equipment measured. I think it’s to our benefit to plan for this eventuality as opposed to reacting to it.

You also have a good point about none of our current regatta’s requiring a measurement cert. I’d like to see all national championships require measure certs as a standard starting at Racine Aug. 2010. Then I’d like to see the regional championships require measurement certs in a phased in approach. Also keep in mind the current prescription addressing measurements certs is only valid for AHPC boats. None of the other manufactures complied with the prescription, so right now not having a measurement cert at a US championship could cause you problems if you’re not on an AHPC boat.

And finally why do it? First and foremost it’s a CLASS RULE! Secondly we have a real shot at getting F18 Worlds in 2012 which is in my mind right around the corner, and to not have embraced measurement certification by then just makes the class a bit bush league in my opinion.

Originally Posted by ksurfer2

I see the argument for measurement and agree that it will be needed as the fleet grows, but am playing devils advocate here. If we start measuring boats, how will unmeasured boats be handled when they show up to regattas? I don't think we're at a point yet where we can tell folks that they can't come out and play.



For a national championship, the requirement will be clearly spelled out. Also measurement at the event could be arranged by appointment. This will help us determine the demand and manpower required. For something like a regional championship, this would be a phased approach. By now everyone that attends the Southern Area Championship knows and expects their boat to be weighed every time (yes there is always a bit of whining) but it's now routine, eventually the measurement cert requirement will be just as routine.

Regards,

David Ingram
NAF18 Chairman


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: David Ingram] #195354
11/04/09 12:34 PM
11/04/09 12:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline
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wildtsail  Offline
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The only thing stopping me is that it isn't a rule and that the closest measurer to me is 5 hours away. Otherwised i'd get my boat measured without hesistation. I absolutely agree that the US class should conform to the international rulesoon this.
I think a one time exception would be the best way to prevent unmeasured boats at events without having to turn them away. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: wildtsail] #195357
11/04/09 12:54 PM
11/04/09 12:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by wildtsail
The only thing stopping me is that it isn't a rule and that the closest measurer to me is 5 hours away. Otherwised i'd get my boat measured without hesistation. I absolutely agree that the US class should conform to the international rulesoon this.
I think a one time exception would be the best way to prevent unmeasured boats at events without having to turn them away. Just my 2 cents.


For a regional championship I like your idea of a "one time exception", but for a national championship it will take some convincing to provide an exception and if the event has the resources to get it done then no exception, IMO.

I'll be at Tradewinds and I'll have the scales, we could knock out a lot of boats. I'll also be at Spring Fever, same deal.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: David Ingram] #195359
11/04/09 12:59 PM
11/04/09 12:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
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Long Beach, California
I hate to point this out, but we've had several years of "one-time exceptions." Dave can tell you that I'm really tired of leaning into the wind on this issue... it is a rule; we just keep ignoring it. My boat is certified.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: John Williams] #195360
11/04/09 01:12 PM
11/04/09 01:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by John Williams
I hate to point this out, but we've had several years of "one-time exceptions." Dave can tell you that I'm really tired of leaning into the wind on this issue... it is a rule; we just keep ignoring it. My boat is certified.


He REALLY is!


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: David Ingram] #195376
11/04/09 03:51 PM
11/04/09 03:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
old hand
ksurfer2  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
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tampa, fl
Whever you're ready Dave, measure away. If you have time this weekend, I'll be around.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: ksurfer2] #195404
11/04/09 09:24 PM
11/04/09 09:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
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St Petersburg FL
I can get my certificate from the dealer. Do I still need to get locally measured etc?

Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: Robi] #195406
11/04/09 09:47 PM
11/04/09 09:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
Any measurers going to be at Havamega?


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: F-18 5150] #195407
11/04/09 09:49 PM
11/04/09 09:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
I couldn't even think of how far I'd have to drive to get to a F-18 regatta.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: Robi] #195420
11/05/09 08:39 AM
11/05/09 08:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Robi
I can get my certificate from the dealer. Do I still need to get locally measured etc?


Clarification from the NAF18 Chief Measurer (John Williams)

Caps come with a completed certificate for the whole boat (including sails), but that certificate still has to be submitted to the class just like you’re going to send me yours (My boat is done except the weights of the blades, it was a bit of a jab). The Chief Measurer in each country is the only one who can certify a boat and issue the number and stickers under the current rules. The various measurers complete the certificate and send it to the Chief.

So Robi, get the cert from Jill and send it to John. You'll need to send it in with a check less the measurers fees.

Dave


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: David Ingram] #195434
11/05/09 11:28 AM
11/05/09 11:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
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Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Robi will still need to do the platform and ready-to-sail weights. Those are the only blanks on his form.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: John Williams] #195621
11/08/09 12:01 AM
11/08/09 12:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Don_Atchley Offline
enthusiast
Don_Atchley  Offline
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Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
John,
Specifically what steps would we need to take to get our boats certified.
I've read all the general comments as to what has to happen. So I think I need to find the scales and the certified guy and have them in the same place.
How would I go about putting this together? We have our own scales up here, so would this allow us to get it done for less money per boat? And how much does this all cost?


Hobie Tiger 2003
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: Don_Atchley] #195637
11/08/09 10:58 AM
11/08/09 10:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Don_Atchley
John,
Specifically what steps would we need to take to get our boats certified.
I've read all the general comments as to what has to happen. So I think I need to find the scales and the certified guy and have them in the same place.
How would I go about putting this together? We have our own scales up here, so would this allow us to get it done for less money per boat? And how much does this all cost?


There is no certification required to be an NAF18 fleet measurer. The list of people on the Measurement page of the NAF18 site are people simply willing to do the job. If you'd like be a measurer for the class add yourself along with your contact info to the site, you're a site admin.

The fees are outlined on the NAF18 site on the Measurement page.

The fees that go to the measurer are negotiable, everything else is fixed at this time.





David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: David Ingram] #195799
11/10/09 12:49 PM
11/10/09 12:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Tools needed/recommended

15 meter steel tape
7 meter steel tape (optional)
10 spikes
Surveyors twine
Carpenters square (I don't use this anymore, I can find square by swinging the tape)

That is pretty much it. I'll post some pictures of the process this weekend. Measuring sails and the platform does not take any specialized skills and the process is pretty straight forward, it just takes a little time.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: F-18 5150] #196238
11/14/09 02:47 AM
11/14/09 02:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Don_Atchley Offline
enthusiast
Don_Atchley  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Originally Posted by hobie18rich
I couldn't even think of how far I'd have to drive to get to a F-18 regatta.


Rich,
We'll be having a great event in Eugene, Oregon.
I'll send you the data if you're at all interested.


Hobie Tiger 2003
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: Don_Atchley] #196529
11/16/09 09:04 PM
11/16/09 09:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
USA1273 Offline
journeyman
USA1273  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by Don_Atchley
John,
Specifically what steps would we need to take to get our boats certified.
I've read all the general comments as to what has to happen. So I think I need to find the scales and the certified guy and have them in the same place.
How would I go about putting this together? We have our own scales up here, so would this allow us to get it done for less money per boat? And how much does this all cost?


I offered to measure the entire fleet in March of last year and then again at NOODS and got crapped on. I have access to an indoor facility where we can hang the scale and weigh without rain/wind impact and I now am co-owner of a loft so we can measure sails if needed. The facility was donated and my time was free.

You have my number... : )


Last edited by USA2477; 11/16/09 09:25 PM.

F18 USA 1273
Andrews 77 (SOLD) Melges 32 (SOLD) Formula18 Olympic 49er (FOR SALE)
Always outnumbered - Never outgunned....
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: USA1273] #196541
11/16/09 10:40 PM
11/16/09 10:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
Don
I'd love to do a Eugene regatta.
Rich


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Question for US F18 Sailors [Re: F-18 5150] #196968
11/19/09 12:19 PM
11/19/09 12:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
Does the new Wildcat come with a cert? I just found out I can buy couple at a great price. If I buy one anyone want the other?


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
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