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Broken N20 Mast Base Casting #199595
12/28/09 01:31 PM
12/28/09 01:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1
J
jpeil Offline OP
stranger
jpeil  Offline OP
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J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1
Hi all. Just purchased a 2001 N20. Had a question regarding a partially broken mast base casting. I don't have a picture at the moment but the damage is to one side of the casting. Essentially, one of the holes where the clevis pin goes through has broken off. One hole still remains. Is there any danger during sailing in regards to the mast getting knocked off if (when) I capsize or perhaps in strong gusts or maybe another condition?

I was able to step the mast down with no problem for winterizing this past weekend. It seems (from online research) that the two holes for the clevis pin are purely to aid in stepping the mast. But it would be nice to get some ideas from people more experienced.

Also, how involved is the replacement process for a N20 mast base casting if I decide to undertake that. Is it something that can be done by me or should I hire someone to look into it? I don't really have a lot of experience in boat repair.

Last edited by jpeil; 12/28/09 01:36 PM.
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Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: jpeil] #199604
12/28/09 04:11 PM
12/28/09 04:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
If it's just the hole that the pin goes in, I don't think there should be an issue. It is not recommended that you sail with that pin in place, anyway. If the mast falls down while sailing (for some strange reason like a parted shroud or something), you don't want that pin causing more damage.

Under normal (and some not-normal) sailing conditions, the shrouds and forestay keep the mast in place if they are tensioned properly. Even after you flip, there is sufficient tension to keep that mast situated properly on the mast ball. I've never seen it come off unless something catastrophic happened first (shroud pin breaking, damage to main beam, etc)

If you're comfortable raising and lowering the mast without the pin (not recommended, but possible) I see no need to spend a lot of time worrying about it. The pin is supposed to keep the mast from slipping off that ball while you're raising/lowing it.

while you're on the topic, couple of things to check each time you're going to sail:

- all pins checked, secured with ringding and preferably taped in place. This includes shroud, forestay, bridle wire, and spin bridle pins)

- shackle at mast hounds (where shrouds and forestay meet at top of mast) is properly fastned so it won't unscrew and part while sailing (yes, it's happened)

- check the hounds where all the wires meet - sometimes that hole stretches out and develops a crack which might eventually fail

- shroud chainplates need inspection to see if they might let go. I don't know of any that have (for something other than the pin falling out)


Jay

Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: waterbug_wpb] #200285
01/11/10 02:07 PM
01/11/10 02:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Mine is broken

Just take extra care while lowering and raising the mast.

It was broken when someone used a screwdriver as a pin and it got caught in the crossbar slot while lowering the mast.

Don't ask me how I know.

Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: jpeil] #200503
01/14/10 09:58 PM
01/14/10 09:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 885
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
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Chris9  Offline
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Posts: 885
Crofton, MD
John,

This past Saturday I looked at your mast bast. I think you will be fine sailing with it the way it is.

If you do decide to replace it, I don't think its a big deal. I replaced one on a 6.0 mast and it wasn't a difficult.

Heads-up, our fleet hold a party we call the Annapolis Invasion. Final details are being worked out. It will be a short notice announcment, since with our bunch that seems to works best.


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: Chris9] #200646
01/17/10 11:39 AM
01/17/10 11:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 9
New Engand
Rick_Bliss Offline
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Rick_Bliss  Offline
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Posts: 9
New Engand
The original mast bases on Nacras did not have the tabs for a stepping pin, they just had shallow sockets. To raise or lower the mast without a stepping pin, push the mast hard over to one side and keep a lot of downward pressure on the mast ball by using the tension from one shroud. No problem sailing without the pin. As another writer mentioned, it is best to remove the pin once the mast is up. Replacing a mast base is pretty easy. The base design has changed somewhat.


Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: Rick_Bliss] #201564
01/28/10 09:42 PM
01/28/10 09:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Speaking of mast bases, what's the "new" design for the N-20 mast base? I've heard of it, but haven't seen a pic of it.

Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: Keith] #201674
01/31/10 01:41 PM
01/31/10 01:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,301
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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It has a mount for the rotator arm.


Lee

Sail fast or get the hell out of the way.
Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: TeamChums] #201684
01/31/10 11:28 PM
01/31/10 11:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Hobie-20 style rotation limiter? Anybody going to this set up? I'm looking at pulling the mast base off and cleaning some things up, was wondering if it was worth going to the new style at that point.

Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: Keith] #201730
02/01/10 03:41 PM
02/01/10 03:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline
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Mike Hill  Offline
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Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
If you are pulling the mast base off anyway you might as well go with the new style rotation system.

I had one with a broken pin hole like yours. I stepped it that way for a couple of years before I finally sold it. I always tied a safety line to the dolphin striker and I had someone pull the mast base toward the ball as I stepped the mast.

Or just replace it. Anybody know if it's glued in or not? If it's glued in you might have a problem replacing it easily.

Mike Hill
N20 #1005


Mike Hill
N20 #1005
Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: Mike Hill] #201753
02/02/10 01:53 AM
02/02/10 01:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Actually mine's not broken, just some corrosion around the join, popping it off and cleaning it up seems like a good thing to do. Didn't know if anybody was actually using the new system and whether they liked it for this boat. Tying the limiter to the boom makes it somewhat self-tending, but the mast base system would be simpler and takes some crap off the boom.

Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: Keith] #202890
02/11/10 02:08 PM
02/11/10 02:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,301
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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Keith,
I switched to the rotator on the base a few years ago and love it. I had a big grommet added just behind the halyard pocket for the rotator limiter line. I did it pretty much Hobie 20 style. It adjusts much easier and will over rotate much easier when setting the spinn.


Lee

Sail fast or get the hell out of the way.
Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: TeamChums] #203979
02/20/10 12:02 PM
02/20/10 12:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Originally Posted by TeamChums
Keith,
I switched to the rotator on the base a few years ago and love it. I had a big grommet added just behind the halyard pocket for the rotator limiter line. I did it pretty much Hobie 20 style. It adjusts much easier and will over rotate much easier when setting the spinn.


Lee - did the grommet on the tramp interfere with the snuffer line/grommet at all? Also, are you still using the lines/cleats on the boom/mast to force/lock the rotation? Thinking back to H-20 days and the bungee system to force rotation, with the limiter keeping it in check...


Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: Keith] #204157
02/23/10 08:09 AM
02/23/10 08:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,301
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
Less force is needed to induce rotation. The angle of the mainsheet blocks is pretty good, so when you sheet in, it pushes the boom forward naturally. It actually over rotates easier without all that line running through the blocks in the cascading system. My retrieval line grommet is just off to the left and right behind the halyard pocket with the rotator grommet centered behind the pocket. I simply drilled through the base and added the rotator arm like the 6.0 was, only with the arm facing rearward. The new base actually puts the arm a little further back. At the time I did it, Nacra didn't have the new (or old for that matter) bases available, so thats why I used an old style base.
You may want to add a small piece of spectra to hold the arm up off the tramp like the H20 did.
I do still use the cleats on the boom to lock it over in distance reaching with the chute.


Lee

Sail fast or get the hell out of the way.
Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: TeamChums] #204207
02/23/10 08:47 PM
02/23/10 08:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline
old hand
wildtsail  Offline
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Posts: 756
Newport, RI
With the rotator at the base there is a pretty sweet posi rotator system... works much better than the boom idea...
Got this idea from Mike Krantz...
A few inches inboard of the jib cleats put a cheeckblock on the top of your beam... in front but a bit out of line (so it can stay uncleated) put a cleat... repeat on the other side.... tie a line from the end of the rotator arm, by the cleat, through the cheek block, across the front beam, past the mast base through the cheek block on the other side, by the cleat and tied to the rotator bar again.
You pull in on the windward side and cleat it off.
My boat is inaccessable to take a pic but i've really liked this system.

Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: wildtsail] #204217
02/23/10 10:46 PM
02/23/10 10:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
veteran
Keith  Offline
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Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Originally Posted by wildtsail
With the rotator at the base there is a pretty sweet posi rotator system... works much better than the boom idea...
Got this idea from Mike Krantz...
A few inches inboard of the jib cleats put a cheeckblock on the top of your beam... in front but a bit out of line (so it can stay uncleated) put a cleat... repeat on the other side.... tie a line from the end of the rotator arm, by the cleat, through the cheek block, across the front beam, past the mast base through the cheek block on the other side, by the cleat and tied to the rotator bar again.
You pull in on the windward side and cleat it off.
My boat is inaccessable to take a pic but i've really liked this system.


A pic or a diagram would be cool if you can! I've been thinking of ways to force the rotation without the usual boom cleats, this sounds hopeful...

Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: Keith] #204226
02/24/10 09:36 AM
02/24/10 09:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,301
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
Keith,
The N20's mainsheet blocks hang from the boom to the rear cross beam at such an angle that when you sheet in, it forces rotation by pushing the boom forward. The F18 is more vertical and pulls more down than forward. Anything more complicated isn't really needed.


Lee

Sail fast or get the hell out of the way.
Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: TeamChums] #204240
02/24/10 11:14 AM
02/24/10 11:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 885
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
old hand
Chris9  Offline
old hand
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 885
Crofton, MD
I think I need that system. The boom mounted rotation inducer is the only bad part of the boat. We often are racing in light airs and the rotation inducer is needed.


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: Chris9] #204249
02/24/10 01:03 PM
02/24/10 01:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,301
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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Posts: 1,301
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
I guess everyone keeps missing the point. WITHOUT all the cascading line from the boom mounted rotator preventer, the mast over rotates EASILY and EFFORTLESSLY.


Lee

Sail fast or get the hell out of the way.
Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: TeamChums] #204305
02/25/10 09:25 AM
02/25/10 09:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline
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wildtsail  Offline
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Posts: 756
Newport, RI
Lee I don't know about yours... but my mast doesn't (or didn't on my 20) rotate 90 degrees in light light air with the chute up and the mainsheet eased

Re: Broken N20 Mast Base Casting [Re: wildtsail] #204308
02/25/10 09:37 AM
02/25/10 09:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline
old hand
wildtsail  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
I apologize for the rudimentary drawing.. I am at work and didn't have much to do it in.
The red is the line. I use a 3mm dyneema line, no need for a big line.
Put the cam cleats just slightly outboard of the cheek blocks so they will not cleat by accident.

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