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Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: TEAMVMG] #203180
02/13/10 04:52 AM
02/13/10 04:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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Quote
Geeeez, The rubbish that keeps me awake at night........................

me too.
EB said, that the boat was too overpowerd downwind, but for me it looked rather like underpowered, having difficulties to lift the hull.
In this case a quick fix could be to modify the traveller so they can pull it to windward. If they are overpowered, they should try a smaller gennaker, if they have one.
I guess that best they can do is to pray for winds below 8kts.

Cheers,

Klaus

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Smiths_Cat] #203183
02/13/10 07:14 AM
02/13/10 07:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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I'm quite sure that even lighter winds will not help Alinghi. As it was, BMWO was able to fly hulls sooner and sail much higher upwind and lower downwind. I saw Alinghi trying several things with weight distribution both upwind and downwind but they could not get close to sailing similar angles as USA while keeping a hull flying.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Smiths_Cat] #203185
02/13/10 08:23 AM
02/13/10 08:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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ior
Originally Posted by Smiths_Cat
Quote
Geeeez, The rubbish that keeps me awake at night........................

me too.
EB said, that the boat was too overpowered downwind, but for me it looked rather like underpowered, having difficulties to lift the hull.
In this case a quick fix could be to modify the traveller so they can pull it to windward. If they are overpowered, they should try a smaller gennaker, if they have one.
I guess that best they can do is to pray for winds below 8kts.

Cheers,

Klaus


I think what he means when he says they were overpowered is the boat couldn't take anymore structurally. The wing is a superior.

I would like to see the two race with soft sails. It would be a better measure of the platforms.


Have Fun
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: catman] #203186
02/13/10 08:50 AM
02/13/10 08:50 AM
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Just notices that both boats rounded the windward mark from the opposite direction than listed in the Sailing Instructions, probably means nothing but isn't that clumsy?
Too bad I had to go home yesterday, the prices of the spectator boats have dropped by 50%!
I wanted to go out yesterday but I would have definitely missed my flight home.

The wind was definitely faster yesterday, although I also think it has quite a bit more surface then the A5 normal mainsail.

Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Tony_F18] #203187
02/13/10 08:57 AM
02/13/10 08:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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heard at SA:

A wingie killed Alinghi.

Alinghi brought a cat to a DoG fight.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Tony_F18] #203188
02/13/10 09:16 AM
02/13/10 09:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
Dlennard Offline
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Just notices that both boats rounded the windward mark from the opposite direction than listed in the Sailing Instructions, probably means nothing but isn't that clumsy?
Too bad I had to go home yesterday, the prices of the spectator boats have dropped by 50%!

The RC told them to do a starboard rounding at the start.
I wanted to go out yesterday but I would have definitely missed my flight home.

The wind was definitely faster yesterday, although I also think it has quite a bit more surface then the A5 normal mainsail.

Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Jake] #203189
02/13/10 09:36 AM
02/13/10 09:36 AM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Originally Posted by Jake
heard at SA:

A wingie killed Alinghi.

Alinghi brought a cat to a DoG fight.

Every DoG has its day.
A CATastrophe!

I do really fear that when BMWO does win this AC we will go back to the proverbial shitboxes, a fear that I know even some US sailors share.

Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Dlennard] #203190
02/13/10 09:38 AM
02/13/10 09:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
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Not in reply to anyone posts inparticular. Maybe its already been mentioned. I was looking at the race last night and it looked to me that Alingis slot going upwind was closed. Maybe it was the camera angle.

Last edited by Chris9; 02/13/10 09:41 AM.

Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Tony_F18] #203191
02/13/10 09:41 AM
02/13/10 09:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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Let's face it, at this level it's a billionaire's game. Mono's return.


Have Fun
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Chris9] #203192
02/13/10 09:45 AM
02/13/10 09:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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Originally Posted by Chris9
Not in reply to anyone posts inparticular. Maybe its already been mentioned. I was looking at the race last night and it looked to me that Alingis slot going upwind was closed. Maybe it was the camera angle.


And the contrast of the sail shape's. BOR fuller shapes, A board flat.


Have Fun
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Chris9] #203193
02/13/10 09:54 AM
02/13/10 09:54 AM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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I just put some new pics online from the AC building in Valencia.
Picasaweb Album
The Swiss had a little procession after the loss.
Ringing their cowbells and airhorns:
[Linked Image]

Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Tony_F18] #203195
02/13/10 10:06 AM
02/13/10 10:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Originally Posted by Jake
heard at SA:

A wingie killed Alinghi.

Alinghi brought a cat to a DoG fight.

Every DoG has its day.
A CATastrophe!

I do really fear that when BMWO does win this AC we will go back to the proverbial shitboxes, a fear that I know even some US sailors share.


I'm not sure that even Alinghi could have gotten enough interest in it to have it on multis...so yeah, I'm afraid that's probably going to happen...but who knows? Maybe Ellison is amped up enough about multies that we might have an AC raced on a class 40' or 60' winged trimarans WITHOUT ENGINES (would that be cool?)


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Jake] #203197
02/13/10 10:13 AM
02/13/10 10:13 AM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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I just noticed something that the reporters missed, see Alinghi dumping water-ballast going upwind? (just before the windward rudder).

Attached Files
water-ballast.jpg (170 downloads)
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Jake] #203199
02/13/10 10:22 AM
02/13/10 10:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Bajan_Bum Offline
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Cutler Bay, Florida
Originally Posted by Jake
heard at SA:

A wingie killed Alinghi.

Alinghi brought a cat to a DoG fight.

I probably know less about catamarans and racing than anybody else here, but I was wondering if it is really possible that a catamaran could beat a trimaran, especially in a case where each designer is doing his best to optimize speed.

Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Tony_F18] #203200
02/13/10 10:23 AM
02/13/10 10:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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They talked about that quite frequently on the native coverage - they dumped ballast pretty often - I presume they were trying different configurations to see if they could get better performance (or maybe were shifting to accomodate different wind).

I also thought of something else too - the times they had both hulls in the water may have been intentional in order to scoop up ballast.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Tony_F18] #203201
02/13/10 10:24 AM
02/13/10 10:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Yep,
I noticed that also, Then downwind they saw it and made a big deal about it.
You said the SIs said port roundings? Harold Bennett made an announcement over the radio that there would be starboard roundings, before the first proposed AP drop.Are Starboard roundings just a match racing thing or what? Don't seem to see them much anywhere else.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Jake] #203202
02/13/10 10:26 AM
02/13/10 10:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Originally Posted by Jake


I also thought of something else too - the times they had both hulls in the water may have been intentional in order to scoop up ballast.


They were scooping alot of water then. I say poor boat balance and poor helm.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #203203
02/13/10 10:40 AM
02/13/10 10:40 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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West coast of Norway
I just can not believe the Alinghi sailing team not knowing how to set up the boat for absolutely best VMG, needing to experiment during the race.. If there is one thing I have learnt, it is to not begin fiddling with settings during a race. If I know this, surely the pros on A5 knows it, if not Ernesto (I call him Grumgold, becouse the whole AC33 is like something out of Ducktales with Uncle Scrooge and Grumgold matching up, money be damned) needs to hire me. smile

Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #203204
02/13/10 10:41 AM
02/13/10 10:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline
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Newport, RI
Starboard roundings are the standard in match and team racing... creates more rules situations which in turn creates more possible plays.

That being said it doesn't do anything when the lead boat is 3+ minutes ahead.

Last edited by wildtsail; 02/13/10 10:42 AM.
Re: America's Cup Countdown [Re: Bajan_Bum] #203213
02/13/10 11:48 AM
02/13/10 11:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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Originally Posted by Bajan_Bum
Originally Posted by Jake
heard at SA:

A wingie killed Alinghi.

Alinghi brought a cat to a DoG fight.

I probably know less about catamarans and racing than anybody else here, but I was wondering if it is really possible that a catamaran could beat a trimaran, especially in a case where each designer is doing his best to optimize speed.

Do you think BMWO is a tri? It sailed 99% of the time as a cat (center hull out of the water). So a cat has beaten another cat.
The big differences are in the size (length and width) and the rig, maybe in the LIDAR (doppler laser) wind measure equipment. I don't know about the weight difference. Overall BMWO has the better package for the wind speeds we saw yesterday. Maybe in other wind conditions the race will be closer, maybe not.

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