Ive just recieved a new Spinnaker from North Sails to install on my Mystere 5.5. It appears the head of the sail will be within 6 inches from the top to the mast.Im concerned the mast will pull to much when reaching and snap,as a lot of bend happens when the sail is loaded.
1) Any idea how much the mast can take before bending over above the hounds?
2) Are their any secrets to taking the load from the top of the mast to the hiking lines?

A back stay may help but you still will contend with compression loads. We ran a back stay on a Hobie 20 with a tornado chute to keep the comptip from breaking in the GT one year. I dont think it would have held together without it on the first day.
Make sure your mast is over rotated when flying it then have someone watch it from in front of you and behind you to see how much it is still bending

Why have a sail made that is much too big for your boat?

Thanks for the tip on a backstay,but unfotunatley the main runs out slightly past the tramp and I cant put on a backstay. The mast on a Mystere is the same as the Tornado, so theres the sail is admitidly big,but Im after more power in light winds and it should work.Perhaps I have the luff to tight,therefore allowing the luff to run to high on the mast.Typically does anyone know how far down from the top of the mast a tornado mounts the tang for the head of a spinnaker. I may also try to drop my snuffer pole?
Ive also on other boats used a pully that the top of the spinnaker can run horizontally around the mast when under pressure instead of a tang. Perhaps a tang is a better option so the mast isnt pulled from the side? I know this will cause the mast to counter rotate,but it may be stronger?
Any more thoughts?I know the sail is big,but Im hopping that others that have indicated they run T spins on mystere 5.5s can assist..................Thanks too for all the input!

I wasnt specific enough about the back stay. Run one on each side from the bail to the outer end of the rear cross beam, that way the main will not interfere unless you travel way out and let out too much sheet anyway.

Thank you Lee!
Ill look into this and run some temporary lines to try this out. The counter mast rotation is a good idea too,because this looks like the strongest way to pull on the mast,but Im not sure how to keep it in that position?Did you use a mast tang and block for the head of the sail for the head of the sail or a rotating block that is supported from the top of the mast. I can see the standard mast tang helping in counter mast rotation as the spinnaker pulls on it.I appreciate your input on this new installation. Thanks again! Richard

Keeping the mast centered and not over rotated will be WEAKER not stronger!!!

with the mast in the over rotated position and the halyard pulley swings to the side of the mast all the driving forward force is going onto the weakest axis of the mast which is now supported by the tension on the mainsheet = backstay. any sideways force is now on the strongest axis (fore and aft) which will be more than strong enough to cope.

If it's a Tornado mast and a Tornado spinny, just rig it like a tornado. Someone will come up with the measurement for the bale [From the top] and then you will just need to make sure that the pole is the same length in front of the mast base. No runners or backstays needed - mainsail will support mast [as long as rotation is let off]

a mystere 5.5 mast is 30'. Tornado masts are 31.2' (i cant recall the exact inches)... so the T mast is at least 1' taller, not the same.

I run an older style T spin on my mystere 5.5. I had luff tension issues and had to lower my pole as low as possible. the problem is sailing in waves... as the bag drops into the water.. the bag fills up. then shoots a bucketload 10' into the air, then rains down on you.. no fun!~

My tang was also to high and made me nervous.. so i dropped it 8 inches (via adding a line bale for the block to pivot around. I dont know the exact measurements anymore

Didn't Aboopoo say he was using a tang/hound and not a block on a bale? If so, wouldn't that edge-pull tend to pull the mast around to point at the center of spin tension and rotate the stronger long axis toward that pull?

What angle do you think is the strongest force of the spin, i.e., at what angle off fore-and -aft? 30? 45? 60? 90? Is that where you want to point your mast rotation? Assume spin tack 12 feet forward on the pole, clew sheeted to the sidestay, and sailing deep as possible. I realize that leach tension will also be pulling the mast fore and aft.

Which is stronger, the long chord of the mast (fore & aft) or the short chord which is supported by the diamonds (except for the length above the diamonds to the spin upper block)?

Has anyone seen a mast break due to NOT rotating the mast under spin?

Knowing fair well that I am really trying to power up my boat using a Tornado Spinnaker rather than another F18 Spin, Ive read a bit from others that have said they've done this but the details lack. So thanks for all the input everyone!
The first time I hoisted the sail was on a bale.The sail was being pulled in tight to the shrouds,on a light wind, and trying to reach a bit I noticed the mast start to bend at the top. The pully on the bail has swing around with the pressure to the side of the mast and it looked like a wet noodle.
After reading some of the input here,Ive purchase a Tang to install this weekend. The tang should help in aligning the mast,more to its strongest direction. My hope is here that,since the head of the sail is at the top of the mast that I can mast head it an be alright??? And that its still strong enough. Im using a spin pole from a tiger, so Ill measure it and see how long it is. Im thinking a longer pole may drop the head of the sail on the mast a bit.
If someone out there knows how long a tornado spin pole should be, it will help, as Ive found little on the web outlining equipment dimensions. Sailing techinque is also something Ill look at and make sure Im more down wind as well, so the pull in in the direction of the sail being used as a back stay.
Someone mentioned to me that a steel line can be run from the hiking lines that the crew attaches too, that can also be run to the top of the mast to help take up some pressure. One cant have to much power can they?

Hi Andrew:
I went to the metal shop today and purchase a one piece pole that is now 19 inches longer than my original one.Im presently fitting it in the hope that the Head of the sail will drop slightly from the top. Ill install a mast tang in the next couple of days. I noticed an old photo you had posted and I think it shows the support lines that run from the end of the spin pole,coming back to a hole in each bow. Ive seen this before on other boats and was wondering if this is strong enough on the mystere? I dont want to crack the bows......

I was able to mount the new pole this weekend(4 meter length) and add a mast tang. The new pole replaced a tiger spinnaker pole and in doing this it dropped the head of the sail at least a foot and a half. I also lowered the hieght of the spin pole with pre-bend. The pole wires were attached with some chain plates to the bows. The spinnaker pulls more in line with the main used as a back stay now, rather than before when using a bail. I havent tried reaching with under a lot of pressure yet,as the february winds have been light.Its looking far more secure. Thanks for everyones input,Richard.

Heres a shot of where the tang is attached now. Its far better than top masting, as it was before. The mast wont bend as much now!

Are you planning on trying this boat against the F18 fleet? I do not know about all the dimensions but the length works.

Later,
Dan

I expect Ill try it against the local fleet across the bay here in Vancouver BC, but as Im the only Mystere on the west coast in the area,Im on my own and tend to be driven by trying to take on the GPS! a game that can never be won....

sorry i wasnt around last week. a t-pole is 13'2". as per the bow holes, i have never seen a mystere bow break off due to a spin bridal. i have seen a g-cat bow tip break off. It is common to drill, then fill (with epoxy) to seal, and then re-drill a small hole for the bridal. (again sorry i didnt respond last week, i see your chain plates). This is to "seal" the hull from both moisture (and weakening) and some people have drilled into their bows, and then fill with water after a capsize... (no names.... right dave?)

No worries Andrew!
I was able to test it out on the pond today in light winds. Great recommendation to turn me on to putting the T spin on the mystere. I few puffs and the boat picked up right away. The crew looked at me with eyes that said.....holly *(^% in bigger winds this will rip!
The mast appears solid enough to lift the boat rather than bend,now that Ive been able to lower it. Any tips now on keeping the haulyard clean on the deck.The spare line is all over the place. Do you take it back to the rear cross beam on a bungee?

i have my halyard/retrieval line (the same line) goes to a ring tied to the port hiking strap shackle (rear beam) then across to a ring on the starboard side, then into the grommet on the tramp (to go into the bag).

one key is to have the exact correct amount of line.. this will take up alot of the slack line all over the place. I suggest cutting off a little each time (as to not overcut) and eventually you will have the perfect amount. this will also help with snuffing as you can not drop the entire sail at once

I do find i still need to grab the extra line (when spins not in use) and tie a little slip know (i do it at the mast) so i dont have 2 or 3' of line dragging in the water under the tramp. i have learned (the hard way) that this can get cought on a crab trap, and take you from 20 knots to 0 very fast...

here is a pic of my friends 5.5 with his spin line going to each strap/beam

Thanks Andrew!
I was at the boat today and installed the lines similar,but riveted them in to the rear beam instead of on the footstraps. I used to run my halyard down the middle of the tramp and had a ring at the back.Your idea will make it easier to distinguish the halyard from the retrieval line withe speed. I just hope it doesn get caught up in my blocks.Ill let you know after the next sail..........

i got rid of the micro blocks and went to 2" rings.. just so it couldn't bind.

let me know how that works for you

looks like you have 4mm robline dingy control line (dynema core with jacket). Is that correct? did you strip the jacket off anywhere?

So far no jamming has happened.Im sure it will at the most inapropiate time though! We got out last weekend in 15knot glassy water as the wind came from 180 degrees from usual westerlies. The wind blew out from the land,so no waves. We gps'd under the T spin at 31klm and found that my worries of a mast snapping wont happen. The forces were enough to lift two adult males into the sky. I did see the mast flex a lot,but feel confident it will stand the test of time.Great suggestion on the T spin...it rocks! Go big or go home! I have two retrieval points (sewn in grommets) and run my return line through the first hole and out the back of the spin to the top retireval hole. Im a bit worried about burning the sail with it this way. Do most run the retireval line for the spin straight up the inside of the sail? I think this may be the case.......
Also to answer your question,I havent figured out how to make that smooth connection to the sail with the sheets.Ive read a bit about using a continuous loop with the ends of the sheets jointed at the deck. Gosh I didnt measure the line,but use the same as my Haulyard on the mast. Its definatley static,but Im not sure of the brand.
Richard,

yes, that is preferred for the reason you gave.. less friction from line on spin. I have a 2 patch system as well. the first one i sewed in a small piece of fabric to pass the retrevial line through, and on the top patch i did the same but on the outside of the spin (so i feed a loop through a small hole) and tie off my retrieval line there (i pass it through so it spreads the load of the "pull" across more area of the sail/patch, helping avoid a tear). All the line is on the inside (on a port tack) which is the same side as my snuffer ring. I can snuff on a starboard tack if i have to, but try not to to reduce wear on my spin. Many racers create tapered lines (using the line i mentioned above, or similar) because the dyneema core is very slick (reducing friction, but not good in a cleat, hence the taper to leave the jacket on areas that are either handled or cleated)



not 100% what you are saying here, but Most people will start out with the bitter ends of 1 line tied to the clew plate. i PERSONALLY cut my spin sheet short, so i needed to add a small extension to the clew (about 2' of dyneema spliced to the clew with another spliced hole in it that i tie my sheet to).

The exception to doing this method is to add a line to the clewplate and sew or splice it into the middle of your spin sheet. then you can either tie the ends together in the middle of your tramp, or simply tie stopper knots at the ends to prevent them from sliding out the spin block.. and let them flap around. i already have 10000 lines around my decks, i dont want more.. plus i would run over the slack, and lastly i dont want to be funblin for line when i am gybing my spin.