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Re: Let the debate begin... [Re: carlbohannon] #203704
02/17/10 11:02 AM
02/17/10 11:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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Smiths_Cat  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Good point. I think that BMWO will keep silence about this technology, since it is applicabale to any future AC boat.
The combination of LIDAR wind shear measurement and a hydraulic actuated computer controlled fast trimming wing mast opens a new horizon to sailing. Although I am not fully clear, if this is legal.

Cheers,

Klaus

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Re: Let the debate begin... [Re: carlbohannon] #203715
02/17/10 12:52 PM
02/17/10 12:52 PM

D
DUH
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DUH
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Originally Posted by carlbohannon
Originally Posted by Keith
I think A5 lost their one opportunity in race 2 by letting BMWO go at the crossing. I also wonder if they misjudged where the layline was. Initially it didn't look like BMWO was on the line, but it looked a shift and there they were - they just seemed to read the conditions better. But if A5 had adjusted a little they maybe could have forced a situation to their benefit. Armchair sailing on my part for sure...



I have been thinking about this and some other odd manuvers in terms of BMWO's laser wind mapping system(Dopler LIDOR). A dopler LIDOR should be able to read windshifts and predict when they will arrive. Alinghi may have tacked on the Layline but BMWO may have tacked on where the layline would be. When BMWO first tacked the birds eye view anaimation showed BMWO below the layline. It was only after Alinghi tacked that the animation showed BMWO on and then later above the layline.

When I first heard about the dopler LIDOR, I thought mapping a square or a circle up to a mile away would be nice not a killer. As watched the race I started thinking instead of just mapping square on the course, I would map a narrow rectangle in front of me to see what is coming at me or an arc to see what it looks like ahead and to the sides in order to see what my alternatives look like. With this information and the right software you could predict whether tacking to cover would pay off. OR you could just use it to predict puffs and lulls and be ready for them. BMWO was always real smooth almost never getting caught by a puff. A huge advantage with a wing on a reach (or downwind?) PLUS a LIDR in this mode would see shifts ahead and when they would reach you.

All of these things depend on the right software and some way to display it so that it is meaningful. I think I would rather have this and a smart navigator to interpret it and ask smart questions than a slightly faster boat.


It looked like Jimmy was using a tactic where the layline boat points below the layline so the crossing boat thinks they are not on the perfect layline, so they cross instead of lee bow. If A would have been able to lee bow (too close I think) we would have had a great race on the reaches with the faster boat trying to find a lane to pass and Alinghi looking like Jean Gerard in Talladega....slingshot engage

The LIDAR is really interesting. I got to talk to them while they were here and I'll probably do a piece on it.

Re: Let the debate begin... [Re: ] #203761
02/18/10 02:35 AM
02/18/10 02:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
veteran
Keith  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Originally Posted by DUH
Originally Posted by carlbohannon
Originally Posted by Keith
I think A5 lost their one opportunity in race 2 by letting BMWO go at the crossing. I also wonder if they misjudged where the layline was. Initially it didn't look like BMWO was on the line, but it looked a shift and there they were - they just seemed to read the conditions better. But if A5 had adjusted a little they maybe could have forced a situation to their benefit. Armchair sailing on my part for sure...



I have been thinking about this and some other odd manuvers in terms of BMWO's laser wind mapping system(Dopler LIDOR). A dopler LIDOR should be able to read windshifts and predict when they will arrive. Alinghi may have tacked on the Layline but BMWO may have tacked on where the layline would be. When BMWO first tacked the birds eye view anaimation showed BMWO below the layline. It was only after Alinghi tacked that the animation showed BMWO on and then later above the layline.

When I first heard about the dopler LIDOR, I thought mapping a square or a circle up to a mile away would be nice not a killer. As watched the race I started thinking instead of just mapping square on the course, I would map a narrow rectangle in front of me to see what is coming at me or an arc to see what it looks like ahead and to the sides in order to see what my alternatives look like. With this information and the right software you could predict whether tacking to cover would pay off. OR you could just use it to predict puffs and lulls and be ready for them. BMWO was always real smooth almost never getting caught by a puff. A huge advantage with a wing on a reach (or downwind?) PLUS a LIDR in this mode would see shifts ahead and when they would reach you.

All of these things depend on the right software and some way to display it so that it is meaningful. I think I would rather have this and a smart navigator to interpret it and ask smart questions than a slightly faster boat.


It looked like Jimmy was using a tactic where the layline boat points below the layline so the crossing boat thinks they are not on the perfect layline, so they cross instead of lee bow. If A would have been able to lee bow (too close I think) we would have had a great race on the reaches with the faster boat trying to find a lane to pass and Alinghi looking like Jean Gerard in Talladega....slingshot engage

The LIDAR is really interesting. I got to talk to them while they were here and I'll probably do a piece on it.


Cool, two possible explanations (or maybe a combo of both) for what we saw. Of course, if it was a classic trick A5 should have at least been thinking it was, we'll never know that answer. In the end they failed to keep themselves between their opponent and the next mark, layline or no...

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