I disagree strongly on this, there is a real crossover of the lighter F18 crews to the F16. Many of the lighter crews struggle with the heavy launching and recovery as well as being over canvassed in a small blow, they would enjoy their sailing more in the lighter, less canvassed boats and would probably spend more time on the water because of this. There is no real downside as the handicap rating is similar so just as fast.

In my opinion the F16 should rate the same as the F18 in both forms, single and twin handed, it would mean all crews could race on an equal basis whether they are light, heavy, female or single handed. It would mean bigger regattas and more fun for all concerned.

Just because boats have the same number DOES NOT make them equal. It's just a number and we all know how flawed handicap numbers are.

So to put it in your terms, are you saying the F16 and F18's should or shouldn't have the same handicap ?

I have to agree with you David - I've found that in mixed fleet racing, F16s and F18s are not far off each other but the F18 does seem to have the upper hand in most windspeeds.
A well sailed F16 can hang with a comparable F18 on manouvreability and the fact that it does seem to accelerate quicker, but once up to speed the F18 will usually pull away until the next manouvre or mark rounding.

Round the complete course there's very little to choose between the two though as just one mistake by either can decide the eventual winner.

I agree with Dave, and there is no substitute for a second set of hands at the sets and takedowns. There is no way the F16 Uni should be rated the same as an F18, maybe only in very light wind, but anytime trapping is involved, no way they are equal.

+1 You forgot to mention that every thing revolves around $! so I'd throw the A class in that mix.

We need to push this class, it's a winner!

Listen, I'm not at all interested in the handicap numbers game, that is not my preferred form of racing.

My point is the F16 fleet should focus on the F16 fleet, to say the F16 and F18 should race as the same fleet is flawed. What it sounds like to me is you want some kind of box rule that supports 1-up, 2-up, 16 feet, 18 feet, significantly differnt minimum platform weights (depending on the configuration), and minimum crew weights that are applied to some configurations not applied to others... come on guys this can't be your end game.

Firstly, If the F18s have a fleet, they are not going to let the F16s play with them. They don't need them.

Secondly, this is the first class I have heard off that are arguing to have their rating increased (reflect the boat is faster). If you believe it is a gift rating compared to an A or F18, you are a fool to ague agaist this advantage. No other class will.

It only sounds like little brother syndrome and nothing else. The F16 class is better than that.

We're doing just fine.

One F16s opinion that all F16s and F18s should carry the same rating does not represent the entire fleet. People are only stating the obvious in terms of relative performane. Yes, it is close but not the same.

Just the same as light F18 teams might find a better fit on an F16, heavy F16 teams might find a better fit on the F18. No need to bash one fleet or the other.

TA; totally agree...... Fleets do not need the other boats.

I think it's only one person who is suffering from Little brother syndrome....

I agree completely..

-1

My wife is only allowing me decaff. She says the real stuff makes me cranky and hard to get along with!

If you want to get back onto coffee you could always tell her its not the coffee making you cranky, its her. One way or the other you'll be allowed all the coffee you can drink.

What you all seem to forget is that here in Europe the F16 Uni ( Formula 16 1.008, Formula 16 Uni 0.982 Formula 18 1.005 ) gives time away to the F18, we have no chance of competing with the F18 as a uni sailor, my understanding is that in America it is the other way around. Mind you in real terms the 2 minutes per hour is really academic to say the least.

John Jalani got it just about right when he said on the water we just keep up with the F18's and no more, whether or not we are uni or dual. The SCHRS as it is set up cannot compute the single handed factors like not having enough hands and the extra delay in sail handling that a Uni dictates and in my opinion the formulae should be able to allow such factors. I'm sure Scooby Simon would disagree.

To date in all the sailing I have recently been to, there has never been a big enough fleet of F18's to warrant excluding the F16's but then I tend to only go to competitions where other F16's are and that tends to be our TT's with the exception of Simons home event, where the F18's are taking no prisoners and will run over you and protest rather than take a poor race result. In those cicumstances I would rather not sail with them but then I'm a bit of a wuss ( most of the time ). Seeing 5 or 6 F18's start and then 5 - 6 F16's seems daft to me, yes on the bigger events where numbers are higher say around 20 or more, then have seperate starts, on the smaller event just lump them all together.

We've already had the conversation about the F18 drivers being over aggressive a$$holes so I won't revisit that. But, I still find it odd you want to sail with those kind of people.

One more thing... if the F16 fleet gets the numbers you want your fleet will be the home of over aggressive a$$holes, that's just how it works.

Oh so true and I guess its the same for most sports.

Yes I do want to go and sail with F18's at big comps, its kind of fun and thrilling to line up with 20 other boats plus the more people at an even the bigger the party afterwards. Sort of something you just gotta go and do at least once a year.

Then you probably don't want to dump on the people you're encouraging to sail with you, I'm just sayin.

What the hell's wrong with you, all rational and courteous and schidt? You haven't given a boot in the nutz in months.

Feelin' ok?