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News for the F16 class #204709
03/02/10 11:09 PM
03/02/10 11:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 94
australia
S
self_inflicted Offline OP
journeyman
self_inflicted  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2006
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australia


Media Release
For immediate release
03 March 2010

OLYMPIC PAIR CHANGE TACK



Rivals on the water for years, multiple Olympians and sailing world champions Darren Bundock and Carolijn Brouwer have joined forces in a new business venture set to create waves for a new generation of sailors.

With the Tornado catamaran dropped from the Olympic program for 2012, the talented multihull sailors are starting a new chapter in their lives, which they hope will help spark a resurgence of interest in the sport of sailing.

The long-term goal of the pair is to establish a circuit for the best young sailors in the world complete with professional teams, professional racing, professional coaching and professional media coverage.

Australian Bundock along with Brouwer, who represented both Belgium and The Netherlands in the international arena, will invest their years of experience at the forefront of multihull sailing to make the venture successful.

“We love sailing and want everyone else to love it as much as we do and the best way to do that is to find a class of boat that is attractive to sailors due to its high-performance and speed but is also media and spectator friendly,’’ Brouwer said. “And we believe we have done that with the C2 Formula 18 and the Viper F16.’’

Two-time Olympic silver medallist Bundock and female multiple world champion and round-the-world sailor Brouwer have formed 2B Sailing through which they will distribute in Europe the C2 Formula 18 and the Viper F16 _ two multihulls set to take European waters by storm and given the stamp of approval by two of the best multihull sailors on the planet.

Bundock and Brouwer, the two B’s, will bring to the venture the dedication, attention to detail and passion that helped them become two of the best and most recognised Olympic sailors in the world and will also act as dealers in The Netherlands and Belgium.

The C2 Formula 18 is a high-performance racing machine set to impress with a spinnaker, double trapeze and square-top mainsail and set to thrill with its capacity for speed.

The two-person Viper has been designed as a potential feeder class and pathway to high-performance sailing for a younger generation of sailors, both male and female.

“These boats are seriously fun, seriously great to sail and fill a gap in the market,’’ Bundock said.
“We see the Viper as a problem solver as it is the perfect boat for youth, women or mixed crews with an ideal weight combination of between around 115 to 145 kilos.”

“The C2 Formula 18 is just a weapon. It is fast, state-of-the-art and so exciting to sail. It is a boat designed to be a winner on and off the race track.’’

In its first ever regatta, the C2 Formula 18 exceeded even Bundock and Brouwer’s expectations when it raced to a first and second in the Australian championships over the Southern Hemisphere summer. Just weeks later the Viper F16 caused heads to turn when it claimed line honours in a marathon in Sydney, Australia, beating the bigger Formula 18’s and Tornados.

“We believe these boats are the way forward for sailing,’’ Brouwer said. “They are fast, spectacular and fun. That is what sport is about.’’




For further information about the C2 Formula 18 and the Viper F16 please go to our website www.2Bsailing.eu


-ENDS-


FOR FURTHER INFORMATION OR HIGH RESOLUTION IMAGES PLEASE CONTACT:



2B Sailing
High Performance Catamarans

Darren Bundock & Carolijn Brouwer
Phone: +31 70 891 9400
Mobile: (AUS) +61 419 885 665
Skype: darren_bundock or cmbrouwer
Email: info@2bsailing.eu
Web: www.2Bsailing.eu
Twitter: 2Bsailing




--Advertisement--
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: self_inflicted] #204720
03/03/10 06:21 AM
03/03/10 06:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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The website also states that they are now also the EU importer for both boats (in addition to dealors/promotors. That is excellent news in my opinion !

One of the problems I was having with the current F16 class setup is the concentration of F16 assets in only two pair of hands. Again I deeply respect both Hans and Pieter for their workmanship but grouping the dealorship/importer status of no less then 4 different F16 designs (Blade, Viper, Falcon and now Raptor) and the class chairman function and chief measurer respectively is too intimate for my taste. Not to mention that Pieter himself is very active in the A-cat class as a dealer and as the founder of this rival class. He also held the importer/dealor status for the AHPC F18 boats.

All together, this is a concentration of influence and power that not even I came close to when I peaked several years ago. Hence my earlier posting of this weekend. I feel the class must strive to end this monopoly (there is simply no other word for it).

It seems that the first step to a new future has now been taken by transfering the C2 and Viper products to 2Bsailing.

Of course it is also excellent news because the class is now reinforced by two excellent sailors and personalities. This is simply a promotional dream come true. I'm personally thrilled !

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: Wouter] #204734
03/03/10 08:27 AM
03/03/10 08:27 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Mark P Offline
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Mark P  Offline
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Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Hang about Wouter I'm going to ignore the majority of your post. However, I'm not convinced that this is a promotional dream etc. I can see your point of view quite clearly but that doesn't necessarily mean that 2B share the same views, in fact I would imagine the last thing they would really want to do is to market the Viper as a F16 when all their competitors are significantly lighter. Although, what would be even worse is that they could add some credibility to the disfunctional 1.04 Class.
I do hope you are right and 2B will prove successful both for the Viper and F16 but lets not get our hopes up too soon.


MP*MULTIHULLS
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: Mark P] #204735
03/03/10 09:02 AM
03/03/10 09:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Quote

... is to market the Viper as a F16 when all their competitors are significantly lighter. Although, what would be even worse is that they could add some credibility to the disfunctional 1.04 Class.
I do hope you are right and 2B will prove successful both for the Viper and F16 but lets not get our hopes up too soon.



I think I share your concerns in this respect.

But with respect to the EU market I feel that beggars can't be choosers.

Pesonally, I see this development as a perfect opportunity to coopt the momentum. The main thing we need to avoid is to give the Viper 100 % of the EU market share. Right now AHPC is treating the F104 as additional feature (rightly so). Additionally the Viper will blow away the other F104 as it is just so much more developed. Basically, its only real competition are the other F16's like the Falcon, Blades and Stealths. AHPC still links itself to the F16 class and we should make sure the F16 class remains attractive to AHPC. Right now both still benefit greatly from eachother and there is no reason why this can't be maintain indefinately.

What we need to do is make sure that the Falcon, Blade and Stealths sales move with the Viper sales. Thus presenting the situation where the Viper sailor can choose between his own OD class or a larger F16 fleet. This is two-way street, but requires some careful manouvring by the other builders, agents and the F16 class as a whole.

This is the time for the F16 class to show great leadership. Leadership that can turn a potential dangerous situation around into a very beneficial one.

If we all do this right then we'll see the F16 class become an international class with a size comparable to the F18's and A-cats.

This is our big break guys, Bundock or Brouwer promo-ing an F16 !, lets hit that ball over the fence !

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 03/03/10 09:08 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: Wouter] #204736
03/03/10 09:08 AM
03/03/10 09:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
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P.S.


Have you seen the 2Bsailing twitter listing ?

"RT@DarrenBundock: Great sailing yest. So impressed with the Vipers performance with 160kg crew weight against 4 of the worlds best ... "

Among other great references to the Viper F16 and its performance.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: Wouter] #204786
03/03/10 02:06 PM
03/03/10 02:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Essex, UK
It is with an extremely heavy heart that I find myself typing this. I had promised myself that I would not stoop to answer the nonsense and vitriol being spouted. BUT:

I find the constant use of the word 'we' to be quite objectionable.
Wouter was given every opportunity to become a member of the F16 Class - yet not only did he refuse to do so, he also refused to assist the class with the transfer of the F16 domain name (even though he was offered all his costs incurred during the previous 3 years in return for so doing). This resulted in additional costs to the class in having to purchase a new domain (.net)

Therefore I find his resurgent zeal and use of "we" to be utterly distasteful. His constant tub-thumping over what a clever person he is to have founded the F16 Class is also objectionable - sure he HELPED to formulate a box-rule that several builders signed up to and it proved to be a very workable, attractive formula with great potential.
However, the class that we see growing today has come about as a result of a LOT of very hard backroom work by the Governing Council, and the faith, investment and goodwill of a number of boat builders. I won't decry the effort that Wouter at al put in at the start but for 5 years the F16 format floundered around with slow growth until the Governing Council was formed.
The F16 Class has a formal, voted for Constitution, it has Associations and it has a membership structure. As far as I'm concerned (and I suspect many people will agree with me), if you are not a member of something it is patently wrong to attempt to portray yourself as being part of it. Especially so when you've actually said you don't want to be part of it!

I write this as an F16 sailor NOT as Secretary - while it is difficult to divorce my feelings in either role, this is not an official response from the GC but my personal outpourings over what I see to be grave misrepresentation and unfair treatment of individuals who have given time, effort and their own money to further the growth of the F16 Class.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: Wouter] #204788
03/03/10 02:11 PM
03/03/10 02:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 94
australia
S
self_inflicted Offline OP
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self_inflicted  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2006
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australia
Originally Posted by Wouter

P.S.


Have you seen the 2Bsailing twitter listing ?

"RT@DarrenBundock: Great sailing yest. So impressed with the Vipers performance with 160kg crew weight against 4 of the worlds best ... "

Among other great references to the Viper F16 and its performance.


Wouter


I was on the boat with him, And we where 164kgs. Sailing in around a 15knots of breeze, And we where nearly always around the top mark 2 or 3rd, depending on what happened up the work. But the boat was very impressive, And i'm by no way one of the top saiors in the world.


Re: News for the F16 class [Re: Jalani] #204863
03/04/10 03:30 PM
03/04/10 03:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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I strongly disagree with as good as every single point made by John Alani in his posting.

I will detail my disagreement in the next posting; for those who want to know the details. The others may skip it and just ponder the following question.

Why would I (Wouter) lie ?

What can I possibly gain by doing so. I'm not seeking any official position in the class nor possess any commercial link to it.

Any disbelievers are invited to pick up the phone and call a guy like Greg Goodall and ask him who wrote the F16 class rules; who the founders are and who he spoke too most often (almost exclusively)during the first years.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: Wouter] #204864
03/04/10 03:31 PM
03/04/10 03:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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<**** on this one.

I was given an ultimatum (through back channels); hand over all remaining resources that I held of the F16 class and then transfer money to become a paying class member.

I found that both disrespectful and unwise.

If such a transfer is to be made then I expect the chairman or some other relevant member of the council to contact me directly and in an official capacity (meaning without the clause of secrecy). I also found the "handing them over free of charge and then pay for your membership" to be a bit unpolite (putting it mildly).

I offered a compromise back. I would continue to pay for the resources myself and continue to allow the class to use them unlimited as was indeed the case ever since the beginning in 2001. In return I asked for a free-of-charge membership as the costs incurred by me through the URL's were annually already 3 times the cost of a membership. Thus I implicetly offered the GC a sponsor deal that helped them pay for the class costs. However, immediately afterwards the airways went completely blank for 3 months straight.

So later in that winter I contacted my backchannel person again and asked him what was going on and whether a deal was still sought.

A reply came back (still through back channels) restating the same original demand as given at the top of this post. At that time I was having flashbacks of my measurement certificate problems (100 Euro's) and PS implied reaction of "What are you going to do about it?". So I added up all the cost that I made over the years for just the URL's and the incomplete (invalid?) measurement certificate and rounded the number off to the nearest round number; being 1000 Euro's. Then I returned my second counteroffer; the GC would either accept my original counteroffer OR pay me 1000 Euro's and accept a grand bargain where the resources would be transfered to some trusted F16 class offical other then Pieter Saarberg or Hans Klok. My contact asked me if the F16 web officer Paul Warren would be considered a trusted person by me. I replied positively and demanded a written contract that barred either PS or HS from ever acquiring these resources personally or by proxy. The grand bargain also included a written statement from the GC that would recognize my tenure as the founding class chairman. I had found that some people were downplaying my activities a little bit too much. No further need to go into details here.

The response was again silence and a while later the formula16.net URL was introduced.

Before we continue; why did I refuse PS and HS control over the last remaining F16 resources ? Already at that time I found that this father and son nexus was controlling far too much class assets with respect to the F16 class as a whole and the EU market in particular. I had already found with my own measurement certificate dispute that one person would provide cover for the other. That my connection to the F16 class was systematically and increasingly understated. I found the downright refusal to complete my measurement form suspect. My boat was declared by PS as being compliant at the GC2007 but I can easily see my compliance being revoked at any given time on the basis of an imcomplete certicate. The refusal to contact me directly concerning the final deal (despite public claims to the contrary)made me extra cautious. I was not going to give both of them a stronger hold on things then they already had. When I founded the F16 class together with Phill Brander and Kirt Simmons we all shared a vision of how the class was supposed to be. I never envisioned my own unitarian chairmanship to be anything but temporary; as a result I don't see any point in replacing my all powerful myself of those founding days by an all power other. Last but not least I seriously disagree with creating a monopoly inside the F16 class.


It appears now that John Alani is buying wholesale into the myth of me just fiddling about during the first 5 years and getting lucky. The same argument is dissimated repeatedly by HS even when it comes down to other roles I've succesfully forfilled such as the WVZ race-officer. So I also call BS on the other statements that you have made.


Quote

sure he HELPED to formulate a box-rule that several builders signed up to and it proved to be a very workable, attractive formula with great potential.


Actually, every single letter of the F16 class rules (barring the post 2006 modifications) was written by me on my computer. It was inputted and proof read by several people most noteably Phill Brander. During formulation of the class rules I was in contact with a score of people (Like Goodall, Pierce, Petrucci and Scott Anderson) and I actively negociated a rule-set that all could agree upon. This was the many months long hallway lobbying that I also refered to in some other recent posting. For example ; you can call Greg Goodall and ask him how many times I phoned him up at my own expense and for how long. Next to that the F16 class rules are based on a mathematic/physical singularity and that is why a smaller boat like the F16 is just as fast as the larger F18. Quite some thought went into the values that are quoted in the F16 class rules. It was actively engineered towards that "great potential". I don't have an university degree in Mechanical, Maritime and Material engineering for nothing !

So I didn't just HELP formulate the rules, the builders didn't just SIGN UP to it and it didn't simply PROOF to be attractive/performant. It was the result of a year long process of going back and forth between different parties while trying to hammer out a shared vision that had clear underpinnings in physics. This project costed me many hundreds if not thousants of Euro's; not to mention the huge amount of my spare time.

Anybody who thinks you can do a thing like this any differently is guaranteed to be fool and a failure.

So John, on which side of the fence do you want to come down ?


Quote

However, the class that we see growing today has come about as a result of a LOT of very hard backroom work by the Governing Council, and the faith, investment and goodwill of a number of boat builders. I won't decry the effort that Wouter at al put in at the start but for 5 years the F16 format floundered around with slow growth until the Governing Council was formed.



I rather think that the Alter Cup 2007 was the result of Matt and a group of US enthousiats, much like the Gulfport invitation events are. Alter Cup 2009 was the result of AHPC, Fun in the Suun (Robbie/Jill) and again a group of US enthousiasts. The Viper F16 was already on the drawingboard with Greg promising an official launch when I passed my responsibities on to the GC. The Blade design had been finished at that time and I had already secured the superwing mast deal for all F16 builders. VWM had already launched their Blade F16 version and I had arranged for the first sale and import of the that boat to NL (EU). Earlier I had achieved the sale and import of Taipan F16's which agents like Sven Lindstadt in Germany carried. Stealth was already on board and had launched the Stealth F16 3 years before my departure; again the first boats to be exported to mainland EU were arranged by me). The Aussie Blade project was started at the time and not much later I designed the Blade and Falcon beams together with Phill. I had also managed to create interest in far off places like Shanghai, Norway, Finland, Brazil, etc and I'm sure that I'm forgetting many other developments. Of course the last action I took was the active formation of the Governing Council where I personally contacted and invited you (and all others) to take a position in that body.

All that and more where Phill Brander, Kirt Simmons and I started out with absolutely nothing at all. In fact we were the laughing stock of the forums as everybody simply knew that a 16 footer could never be that fast or affordable lightweight.



By my estimate the GC started their leg of the race with a class running and did the GC2007 in Zandvoort (with lots of help from WVZ volunteers) and the GC2008 at Mumbles (with lots of help from the locals there). They also formalized the measurement forms and then split the F16 forums (humm). The new website was already created under my tenure but expanded by Rolf, Gill and others to the point where it is now. Since my departure no new builders were attracted to the class and the EU market penetration is after 4 years at about the same point where I left it. A few boats were indeed sold but I won't bring up the recent Dutch F16 nationals (organized by HS and PS ?). Of course several regions have formed their class associations but I know that for example Phill was the main force behind the AUS association where the format was almost entirely dictated by Australian law. I already knew that Phill was a hard working dependable man before the GC was formed; so I fail to see the other in the GC can lay claim to that success. USA association was largely formed under guidence of Matt McD and the US enthousiasts.


Of course I too think that the GC did excellent work over their tenure; but they do appear to be a little delussional when it comes down to F16 class history.

Quote

if you are not a member of something it is patently wrong to attempt to portray yourself as being part of it.



As the co-founder and the first chairman I will always be part of the class no matter what your membership listing says.


Quote

Especially so when you've actually said you don't want to be part of it!


Indeed, at this time I refuse to legitimize the current situation by requesting a membership. That doesn't mean however that I don't want to be part of the F16 class. I will most likely get a membership when the situation has been improved.

By the way is the class constitution still secret ?



Quote

my personal outpourings over what I see to be grave misrepresentation and unfair treatment of individuals who have given time, effort and their own money to further the growth of the F16 Class.



Ahhh, put a sock in it John. You never thought twice about dissing me despite the time, effort and my own money that I have invested in this class.

You are applying a double standard here.


In fact, there is not a single untruthful thing in my posting. So yeah indeed, somebody is lying here. My question to you (all) is why you are so certain that it is me ? What do I have gain/loose ? It is not me who has monopolized valuable F16 class assets, is it ? I'm not even offering myself for any future GC position or class official status. Nor do I have any commercial link to the class at this time.

So why would I lie ?

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 03/04/10 03:42 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: self_inflicted] #204866
03/04/10 03:48 PM
03/04/10 03:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Quote

I was on the boat with him, And we where 164kgs. Sailing in around a 15knots of breeze, And we where nearly always around the top mark 2 or 3rd, ...



Wow man !

Getting driven around on a F16 by the likes of mr Bundock.

That is what I call a wet dream !

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: Wouter] #204871
03/04/10 04:24 PM
03/04/10 04:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
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Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Wouter,

you accuse many poeple of many things.

However you want to dress it up to make YOU feel better; you were holding our class to ransom as you personally held the old URL; you told us you wanted considerable amonts of money for "your costs" to give up this URL to the F16 GC.

You made it clear you wanted MONEY.

Many people have joined the association and a fair number of us have provided funds and time to help the class. The F16 class forum was NOT financed from class funds; a few committed people stumped up the cash to buy the software; those people do not crave the limelight of recognition; they offerend because it was the right thing to do.

Others within the class have provided funds to facilitate things the class needs to do; they to do not wish this to be public or crave attention.

They did it for the good of the class.

From my pouint of view; your latest posting are trying to damage the class I love and many others do to.

Please stop.

Last edited by scooby_simon; 03/04/10 04:26 PM.

F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: scooby_simon] #204883
03/04/10 05:34 PM
03/04/10 05:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
old hand
pepin  Offline
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France
For the record the F16 members were called to vote democratically on the issue of Wouter ransom note for the domain name and the result of the vote was overwhelming: don't pay that guy a dime and don't give him a free membership.

If you are a F16 member you can go look at the vote and the discussion, it's all there for you to see. Nothing hidden.


Re: News for the F16 class [Re: self_inflicted] #204885
03/04/10 05:56 PM
03/04/10 05:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 465
Oxford, UK
pdwarren Offline
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pdwarren  Offline
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Oxford, UK
Wouter,

You claim:

Quote

its success is close to my heart. When pressed, I will always choose the success of the class over any person (including myself).

I guess it is all up to you now; don't let this beautiful class fail !


If this is really the case, can you please explain why formula16.org and formula16.com, the domain names that we previously relied on, are now in the hands of domain squatters, rather than promoting the class that the rest of us want to see succeed?

Actually, please don't. It's been a long time since you've said anything on this forum that has been in the best interests of the class.

Paul

Re: News for the F16 class [Re: pepin] #204893
03/04/10 07:07 PM
03/04/10 07:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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Seeker  Offline
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
F 16 is Wouter, Phill and Kirt...if the class is not giving the three of them lifetime free memberships to their own brain child, the GC should be shot, hung and drowned....not necessarly in that order. To not grant them that respect is wrong on so many levels I wouldn't know where to begin.

Remember if it wasn't for the countless hours of time Wouter, Phill and Kirt gave for free you wouldn't even have a class. Chew on that for a while.

I don't know what the going rate is for an engineer in Europe, but her in the US it would be easy to spend $1,000 for a day of their time, let alone the amount of hours these gentelmen invested. Sounds like the GC was offered the deal of the century and were to short sited to see what they were offered.

Funny how Wouter is suppose to pay 100 euros for a measurment of his boat and no one has a problem with that...but as one of the driving forces behind forming a the F16 Catamaran class and spending years of free time... many are offended that he tried to recoup just a fraction of the time/money he layed out and asked for a waver on the membership dues....unbelievable....

Re: News for the F16 class [Re: pepin] #204900
03/04/10 10:22 PM
03/04/10 10:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,479
Thailand
Buccaneer Offline
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Buccaneer  Offline
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Thailand
Looks like someone has an inferiority complex and needs validation...cool So what else is new. grin Wouter did a fine job of promoting F16 but more importantly for him he was able to promote himself. grin

F16 was based on the Taipan platform, so no big deal really. wink


"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." – Ben Bernanke – 2005
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: Buccaneer] #204908
03/05/10 03:14 AM
03/05/10 03:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 88
South Australia
Phile Offline
journeyman
Phile  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 88
South Australia
[quote=Buccaneer]Looks like someone has an inferiority complex
....and delusions of grandeur. But don't you blokes be too abusive as it takes all kinds. Although the Big W is a pain in the butt it is apparent that he has a lot of technical knowledge which would be a pity to see lost from the Class.

Re: News for the F16 class [Re: Phile] #204920
03/05/10 09:08 AM
03/05/10 09:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
+1


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: News for the F16 class [Re: pepin] #205269
03/11/10 05:41 AM
03/11/10 05:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Quote

For the record the F16 members were called to vote democratically on the issue of Wouter ransom note for the domain name and the result of the vote was overwhelming: don't pay that guy a dime and don't give him a free membership.

If you are a F16 member you can go look at the vote and the discussion, it's all there for you to see. Nothing hidden.



Interesting that "you guys" felt "okay" with demanding me to simply hand over the resources (with over 700 bucks incurred costs) through back channels but didn't feel up to the task to come back at me and notify me of that result.

What am I to think here ?

I think that I have been involved in some dirty game where I myself are out of the loop of some important developments.

I always negociated with the best intentions but I can't say that I feel the other side has.

Who the "other side" is exactly, I don't know, but I don't believe they are the regular class members.

I also wonder why you use the describtion of "ransom note"; I don't remember writing anything down like that. I do remember writing down a "sponsor deal" ; where I incurred higher costs annually in favor of the class then just a membership. I have always allowed the class unlimited use of these resources EVEN DURING the negociations and afterwards. It was the class who decided to migrate to www.formula16.net for their own reasons, NOT because I disallowed use the ones I controlled.

If that is not a show of good intentions then I don't know what is.

And now I find that all the blame is being laid on my shoulders.

Like I said I feel that I have been part of a dirty game without me knowing it.



Quote

it's all there for you to see. Nothing hidden.


Is it ? Then why, I ask you, was I never contacted about this in an official manner ?

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 03/11/10 06:32 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: News for the F16 class [Re: Wouter] #205270
03/11/10 06:04 AM
03/11/10 06:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Originally Posted by Wouter
[quote]
. . . Then why, I ask you, was I never contacted about this in an official manner ?

Wouter


You're indefatigable. If you want to pm me, I'll go through this with you.

I happen to appreciate your wealth of knowledge and enyoy your (sometimes scathing) sarcasm. But you're a hard man to talk to.

Unfortunately, imo, dialog with you is seen as negatively impacting the class. I won't do it online.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: News for the F16 class [Re: pdwarren] #205271
03/11/10 06:04 AM
03/11/10 06:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Quote

If this is really the case, can you please explain why formula16.org and formula16.com, the domain names that we previously relied on, are now in the hands of domain squatters, rather than promoting the class that the rest of us want to see succeed?



Yes I can.

After the abuse I received from both the GC, F16 chief measurer and now an increasing group of class members (who form their opinion on actively dissimated yet incorrect information), I felt no longer bound to incurr costs on behalf of a class that doesn't appear to give me any respect.

As was stated by Pepin "the result of the vote was overwhelming : don't pay that guy a dime ...". So why do you still believe that I should pay alot more then a dime to "do the right thing" under those circumstances ?

I payed several hundred bucks alone over the years to maintain the URL's and continued to do so well after the "negociations" and the migration to the .net url. I think that I did my best. All I got in return was that all blame was laid on my shoulders and untruths being propelled like I only "helped" form the class and that the class rules "somehow got lucky" in being succesful.


Quote

It's been a long time since you've said anything on this forum that has been in the best interests of the class.



In fact, all I have said is in the interest of the class. The current GC completing their tenure in a year and making room for a new blood IS in the best interest of the class.

I give the dealings with regard to my person as one example out of several. (notice the hint !) We really don't want similar things to happen with say event sponsors etc, hosting clubs, etc.

The GC could have handled all of this alot better and even come out ahead in class budget. But they didn't, they actually achieved the worst result they could get. Not a good showcase of (essential) skills.

Therefore I bring attention again to my proposal to have the current GC complete their tenure in a year, thank them deeply for the services rendered, and then replace them by an new GC.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 03/11/10 06:13 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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