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Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this tripe #209739
04/28/10 04:13 PM
04/28/10 04:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline OP
old hand
Mike Hill  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
America's Cup: The Myth of Monohulls


'More of this? 32nd America’s Cup - Final Match - Day 4 - Alinghi vs Emirates Team New Zealand' Photo: Gilles Martin-Raget

The multihulls we watched in America’s Cup 33 were amazing, well, at least one of them. The boat that won. BMWOracle’s trimaran USA.

Now the yacht club that sponsored BMWOracle Racing, Golden Gate Yacht Club of San Francisco (GGYV), with an assist from its challenger partner, Club Nautico di Roma (ITA), has apparently formulated the protocol for America’s Cup 34, and will be announcing it soon. That’s great. All of us are ready and waiting.

Just for the record:

(1) We don’t think America’s Cup is drag racing. Drag racing is about highly powered, ungainly vehicles challenging each other in a speed-only event. We saw some drag racing in AC33. It was new and captivating since we had never seen drag racing before in America’s Cup. However, like most purists – and as Bruno Troublé (head of yacht racing for former America’s Cup sponsor Louis Vuitton) and many other purists probably feel about this – we hope that drag-racing doesn’t become the future of America’s Cup.

(2) Multihull racing vs. monohull racing is like giraffes – no, camels – racing thoroughbred horses. Sometimes those camels and giraffes are extraordinarily fast, but thoroughbreds are better bred, more elegant, more beautiful to look at, and, well, fast enough.


Less of this? In pursuit of USA-17, Race 2, 33rd America’s cup, Valencia - BMW Oracle Racing: Guilain Grenier Click Here to view large photo

(3) You cannot discern yacht speed on television. Monohull or multihull, you cannot tell by watching helicopter footage (which most us see), even in close up, exactly how fast boats are sailing. Speed actually is rational data communicated live by commentators, by onscreen captions, or through online presentations from modeling data (as on Virtual Spectator). Any argument that America’s Cup needs multihulls because racing is about speed is, inevitably, null and void. Television cannot discern speed on the water.

(4) Multihull speed – indiscernible to most viewers anyway – is about the thrill of failure. This is the ‘spinnaker syndrome’, raised to the power of ten. Whenever most of us see stress on a racing boat, it’s when spinnakers are raised. In a situation exacerbated by commentators and television producers, most of us sit there and wait for something to destroy everything. It’s a bit like NASCAR, transcribed to downhill legs on a sailing racecourse. The fact is, cataclysmic incidents are what high-speed racing multihulls are all about, most of the time. Even multihull sailors admit that. We respect that courage and everything else that makes multihulls unique. But is this what America’s Cup is about?


Q: How fast is USA-17 sailing here? A: 22kts - Impressive? Very. Spectacular, yes, but not in the way you would think. And not on TV. - Richard Gladwell Click Here to view large photo

(5) Once speed is diminished by television, multihull racing is (wait for it) boring. It’s about straight-line, drag-racing speed. It’s about the fear of failure. In America’s Cup, so far, it hasn’t been about tactical, competitive action. So far, multihull racing has shown us long, boring legs of immense speed that we cannot discern, except when one boat is faster than another.

For the rest of the story click here





Mike Hill
N20 #1005
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this tripe [Re: Mike Hill] #209740
04/28/10 04:27 PM
04/28/10 04:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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brucat  Offline
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This actually SURPRISES you???

Mike

Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this tripe [Re: Mike Hill] #209744
04/28/10 04:39 PM
04/28/10 04:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
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PTP  Offline
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Michigan
they do make a couple good points and it certainly seems like editorial more than anything else. It would be nice to have it be closer, but my limited understanding of the races for the cup in the past haven't necessarily been that close on monos either. Clearly the boats need to be more similar than in AC33... but more similar CATS or TRIS.

Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this tripe [Re: Mike Hill] #209748
04/28/10 04:52 PM
04/28/10 04:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 75
Clearwater, FL
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stevefisherkeller Offline
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stevefisherkeller  Offline
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Posts: 75
Clearwater, FL
Just my opinion, but if you want to make it more exciting get rid of the match race format. Put 4-6 boats in the race. Then if one boat blows the tack at the start, you still have a start. You might have a colision, .... A little more action on the course equals a little more excitement.


Steve Fisherkeller
P19MX
Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this tripe [Re: Mike Hill] #209750
04/28/10 05:08 PM
04/28/10 05:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
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hobie1616  Offline
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“an island in the Pacifi...
I like the, "... giraffes – no, camels – racing thoroughbred horses..." part except he's calling the wrong type of boat a thoroughbred.

I also enjoyed his, "... most of us sit there and wait for something to destroy everything." blood sport attitude.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this t [Re: stevefisherkeller] #209774
04/29/10 02:48 AM
04/29/10 02:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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TEAMVMG  Offline
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uk
Americas Cup IS a match race.
To make this exciting, you need a pair of evenly matched boats with lots to go wrong - I don't think that multis fit this bill.

Whilst the camel analogy was a bit misdirected, i think that the article would pretty much sum up the opinion of the general sailing punter. After all, how bloody dull were those 2 reaches?
I think that we have to let the AC thing go and leave it to the 15KSBs
We have our own match racing event to look forward to after all....

C'mon Invinctus!


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this t [Re: TEAMVMG] #209777
04/29/10 03:23 AM
04/29/10 03:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe


Quote

After all, how bloody dull were those 2 reaches?



Not nearly as dull as seeing two 12 knot boat doing exactly the same 40 nm course. That is what many forget, the longwindedness of the racing wasn't due to the multi basic design but rather to the basic course layout that sees hardly any mark roundings and requires enormous long strait legs.

Anybody up for a 4 hour heat between leadmines ?

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this t [Re: Wouter] #209778
04/29/10 05:17 AM
04/29/10 05:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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TEAMVMG  Offline
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uk
Agreed, that race would drag on for ever in monos. But I think we are talking about a challenger and final series of racing and not another farce of a 'Deed of Gift' race [and the course that goes with it]


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this t [Re: TEAMVMG] #209784
04/29/10 07:31 AM
04/29/10 07:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 267
Ocean Springs, MS
Capt_Cardiac Offline
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Capt_Cardiac  Offline
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Ocean Springs, MS
that gentleman has a very small phallus and is desperately trying to convince his audience that he has the thoroughbred. I have pity on this poor man.


Capt Cardiac
Ocean Springs Yacht Club
Sailor
Nacra20 - Flight of Ideas #5
Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this t [Re: Wouter] #209786
04/29/10 07:45 AM
04/29/10 07:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I
Isotope235 Offline
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Isotope235  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
Well, I enjoy sailing, no matter how many hulls the boat has. Either way, I'd much rather see an open event with multiple challengers than a DoG match.

I agree that the author had his animals wrong. If the monohulls are thoroughbred racehorses, the multihulls would be cheetahs.

Regards,
Eric

Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this t [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #209787
04/29/10 07:45 AM
04/29/10 07:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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pgp  Offline
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laugh Maybe that's the "root" of the problem. Cat sailors have two, the poor mono sailors only one!


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this t [Re: pgp] #209789
04/29/10 08:07 AM
04/29/10 08:07 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by pgp
laugh Maybe that's the "root" of the problem. Cat sailors have two, the poor mono sailors only one!


hahah!

Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this t [Re: pgp] #209807
04/29/10 10:50 AM
04/29/10 10:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by Isotope42
I agree that the author had his animals wrong. If the monohulls are thoroughbred racehorses, the multihulls would be cheetahs.

Originally Posted by pgp
laugh Maybe that's the "root" of the problem. Cat sailors have two, the poor mono sailors only one!


+1 laugh


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this t [Re: hobie1616] #209811
04/29/10 11:13 AM
04/29/10 11:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
The LV challenge and AC match race should be on VX40's or similar class of boats. Will keep team costs down and action up!

Courses should be windward/leeward and not excessively large.


Jay

Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this t [Re: waterbug_wpb] #209838
04/29/10 02:10 PM
04/29/10 02:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Timbo  Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
And should only be held if the wind is above 15, not below 8!


Blade F16
#777
Re: Arrg, Cancelling my Sail Subscription because of this t [Re: Timbo] #209846
04/29/10 03:38 PM
04/29/10 03:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Naples, FL
speaking of tripe, it's not that bad when it's wrapped up in those stuffed burritos at a certain fast-food chain that had a minature dog as a spokesperson (not Spuds McKenzie, either)



Jay


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