| Re: The Unspoken PFD Conundrum
[Re: Lost in Translation]
#209804 04/29/10 10:02 AM 04/29/10 10:02 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | To me the CE life jackets are plenty safe, and the Tybee rules should be amended to allow them. Based on what I'm seeing in this thread, in Tybee I will now use a USCG life jacket instead of my CE one that is fully rigged with safety knife, hyrdo pack, etc.
John, do you think an amendment is likely? Check the front page of the Tybee site. It's been addressed. http://www.tybee500.com/
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: The Unspoken PFD Conundrum
[Re: brucat]
#209839 04/29/10 02:25 PM 04/29/10 02:25 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Mike I don't get this notion of " a serious or important regatta" requiring more attention to the technical rules.
I think you need one set of rules and standards .... period. Otherwise, this is a slippery slope which can only lead to to somebody feeling screwed. "Hey... I am not an insider... how was I to know that in THIS regatta that the blah blah rule would be enforced to the letter but not in that regatta.
The Hobie world has a comp tip requirement... they don't have tiers of regattas... Rather, they have the discretion to issue a waiver for up to two events to a sailor with an all metal stick (my area). The rules are clear. If the hobie sailors did not like the rule... they can change it... for the prescription problem where they can't change it.. ... class culture should control. Do you know of any hobie rules which have two tiers?
In the Tybee case, The Tybee class has moved the gear requirement down into the SI's... While there may be no rules difference, the practical effect is to make the requirement explicit for the race. More importantly, they make it clear that modifications to the PFD did not compromise the PFD prescription rule. Good for them.
As Tony observed...Sailors could have just stuffed one CG jacket into a hull and worn what they wanted. But it looks like they made a CG jacket part of the race.
I thought about the SI rule change some more. I would not be thrilled with adding the no protest rule to the SI's. I think that this shifts responsibility (no matter how small) away from the sailors to the PRO's and regatta organizers. I never think this is a good idea. Therefore, in this catch 22 circumstance... an unwritten class standard of no protests demonstrates the proper judgment rather then the rules addition to the SI's.
My view is that if a class determined that a PRESCRIPTION rule of sailing should be nullfied with a no protest standard... you do not need a guide dog to see the class standard... Moreover, the class practice simply restricted your ability to protest on this equipment rule. ... if you want to comply with the prescription you could or easily adjust and turf the class IV before the first race.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: The Unspoken PFD Conundrum
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#209844 04/29/10 03:13 PM 04/29/10 03:13 PM |
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,969 brucat
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Posts: 3,969 | Calm down and go back to my prior post (#209716). I'm just saying you're more likely to be protested at a major regatta, because you're not as "protected" by your "cultural" disobedience, since you may not know all the players, and may not be able to know whether they will protest if you choose to ignore a rule.
In all cases, the rules are the same, and you theoretically stand an equal chance of being protested. Breaking a rule (especially the PFD rule after being part of this thread) is clearly a conscious choice.
In reality, some times certain rules are ignored by entire groups of people (as you've pointed out plenty of times in this thread), regardless of RRS, Rx, class rules, SIs, or anything else; and you may not get protested.
Mike | | | Re: The Unspoken PFD Conundrum
[Re: brucat]
#209845 04/29/10 03:29 PM 04/29/10 03:29 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Got it.
What do you think about the shifting of responsibility concern, Granted it's probably a small shift. Do you think the addition to he SIs is really warranted?
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: The Unspoken PFD Conundrum
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#209853 04/29/10 04:28 PM 04/29/10 04:28 PM |
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,969 brucat
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Posts: 3,969 | Well, as I've said, generally speaking, I don't personally like SIs to change existing rules (and that comes from IROs).
Either way, I don't see this as a shift, because every time I've seen this SI used, it's not done to shift the responsibility, but rather, to avoid lots of "frivilous" protests. If there are real safety issues (such as, NO PFD being worn, kids not checking in ashore at the end of each day), the RC will protest and make sure the message gets across. I've really not witnessed "safety inspections" other than for distance races (NE 100).
Most of the high-end PROs that I know don't really worry about this stuff too much, because they feel that personal safety is handled by RRS 4.
The last thing any PRO wants to do is to affect the outcome of an event. If the sailors don't want to follow certain rules, and/or don't want to protest over certain rules, smart PROs ignore it. If they have a personal issue with the rules that are being broken, they decline the event in the future.
We're there to serve, not to dictate.
Mike | | | Re: The Unspoken PFD Conundrum
[Re: Steve_Kwiksilver]
#209870 04/29/10 08:58 PM 04/29/10 08:58 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,911 South Florida & the Keys arbo06
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Posts: 1,911 South Florida & the Keys | I am not trying to be cute, but, if you were wearing a PFD and they picked you up alive, I would guess that the PFD was effective regardless of who approved its use.
Eric Arbogast ARC 2101 Miami Yacht Club | | | Re: The Unspoken PFD Conundrum
[Re: Isotope235]
#209875 04/29/10 11:47 PM 04/29/10 11:47 PM |
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 334 Seattle,Wa Don_Atchley
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Posts: 334 Seattle,Wa | Here's yet another option... I don't believe this one is certified by either regulatory agency. But it would be less likely to get you protested. High Flotation Life Jacket Hobie Tiger 2003 | | |
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