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Swim Prevention #210345
05/06/10 07:59 AM
05/06/10 07:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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TEH  Offline OP
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Last year was my first season on a spinnaker boat and I looked back at all my capsizes and as expected, the majority were downwind rounding the mark in higher winds. I’ve heard a few suggestions on how to keep the tiller stable during a chute takedown, but wanted to see if there were other tips out there from uni sailors.

This is a part of my 6 point plan to emerge from the bottom of the fleet.


Blade F16 USA 725
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Re: Swim Prevention [Re: TEH] #210350
05/06/10 08:46 AM
05/06/10 08:46 AM
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France
pepin Offline
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France
My technique to take down the chute is to kneel on the back of the trampoline, facing forward, with one leg slightly extended to put a foot on the tiller bar. The foot does the steering while I use my two hands to pull the spi in the bag.

I also throw the tiller extension over the back of the boat on the downwind leg, so it's not in the way when I snuff the spi, and this also helps keeping the rudders stable.

But looking back at last season my most spectacular capsize was at the UK nationals in Mumbles where I bought it snuffing the spi right as a wave lifted the back of the boat around sending me into an uncontrolled surf session which ended rather badly smile So it's not like it's a foolproof solution either...

Re: Swim Prevention [Re: TEH] #210351
05/06/10 08:50 AM
05/06/10 08:50 AM
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Memphis, TN
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mikeborden Offline
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Were you stuffing?

Do you have one foot on the tiller to steer boat?

All my capsized have been going downwind also, but when jibing. Not going around the bottom mark, I'm a little consevative though.

Are you still sheeted in hard? When you round the mark?


Viper USA 132

1984 Hobie 18
Re: Swim Prevention [Re: TEH] #210355
05/06/10 09:01 AM
05/06/10 09:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Coaching clinic, particularly one with a focus on spinnakers. Best money you'll ever spend.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Swim Prevention [Re: mikeborden] #210356
05/06/10 09:02 AM
05/06/10 09:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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TEH  Offline OP
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I only capsized once on a jibe last year. Most were take downs just before the mark where I didn't get the chute down fast enough and the boat began to round up.

Some were due to angle of attack on the mark. We sail gates a lot and with an extreme angle to the gate, I wouldn't get as downwind as needed which hindered take downs as well.

One of the suggestions I picked up at GC was to pin the tiller between thigh and calf as I kneel to take down the spin.

This seems better than the foot method just because I want to be careful not to break the crossbar. However, the idea of tossing the tiller out the back is appealing.


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Swim Prevention [Re: pgp] #210357
05/06/10 09:04 AM
05/06/10 09:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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Yeah, I hear ya on the clinics. I'm 0 for 3 on the clinics for this season. One thing or another has come up.


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Swim Prevention [Re: TEH] #210360
05/06/10 09:16 AM
05/06/10 09:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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Gotta do it.

For some the sport is intuitive and they can get by without training (though I imagine the very top train the most), for us tail-enders, training is the only way.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Swim Prevention [Re: pgp] #210361
05/06/10 09:35 AM
05/06/10 09:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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I prefer to think of myself as a "F16 fleet supporter" or "regatta boat count booster" grin


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Swim Prevention [Re: TEH] #210366
05/06/10 10:15 AM
05/06/10 10:15 AM
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Posts: 465
Oxford, UK
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Like Mike, I find the jibes more of a problem. Make sure you let out the traveller and the main before dropping. This will remove the tendency of the boat to round up as the kite comes down. I usually kneel down and put the tiller extension under my foot to hold it straight. I can steer a little like this, but generally I try to get the kite down fast enough that I don't have to steer.

In lighter winds, leave a bit more main/traveller tension on and the boat will start to round itself up.

Paul

Re: Swim Prevention [Re: pdwarren] #210367
05/06/10 10:18 AM
05/06/10 10:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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TEH  Offline OP
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Thanks Paul,

How far do you let out the traveller/main?

Any concerns in higher winds about putting too much pressure on the spin with the main eased?


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Swim Prevention [Re: TEH] #210376
05/06/10 11:34 AM
05/06/10 11:34 AM
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Memphis, TN
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mikeborden Offline
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Originally Posted by TEH
Thanks Paul,

How far do you let out the traveller/main?

Any concerns in higher winds about putting too much pressure on the spin with the main eased?


Just as long as you don't ease 10 feet of it you can let out enough to not round up and not hurt your mast.

I also let out the traveler, but it depends on the wind of how much I let out. I'm not good yet, so in higher winds, I let out on the traveler almost as much as when I'm setting the spin...which means all the way down. Again, I'm probably being to conservative in doing this, so that means you'll be a little slow.



I think the biggest trick is to find the groove where you can let out on both enough and the boat won't round up and as you do turn up into the wind to go, that you aren't sheeted in too much, that's where you'll usually loose it and capsize. At least from what I have seen....

I do steer with my foot...here's how I do it....


One knee on the tramp, the other knee with the foot on the tramp. Put the tiller on the top of the boat, put your foot that is with the knee in the tramp on top of the tiller. Your steering isn't precise, but it's better than not having any steering at all. And, you have enough steering so you can control where you want the boat to go. This works snuffing and setting....


Is that clear as mud? smile



One thing that I have been told time and time again, always have the tiller in one hand and the sheet in the other or at least the two of them together in one hand. Us singlehanders, that's kind of hard to do. So, the next best thing to do is sticking the tiller under butt or something while you are cleaning up the tramp for example.


Viper USA 132

1984 Hobie 18
Re: Swim Prevention [Re: mikeborden] #210377
05/06/10 11:35 AM
05/06/10 11:35 AM
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Memphis, TN
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mikeborden Offline
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BTW, those are some tricks I learned from doing Clinics...

So I think you owe me 150! smile




Viper USA 132

1984 Hobie 18
Re: Swim Prevention [Re: TEH] #210378
05/06/10 11:42 AM
05/06/10 11:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 465
Oxford, UK
pdwarren Offline
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Not once the spin sheets are eased.

In strong winds, I ease both quite a lot - traveller most of the way down, and a good few armfuls of main.

Paul

Re: Swim Prevention [Re: TEH] #210380
05/06/10 11:50 AM
05/06/10 11:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline
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No problem easing the main. As long as you do it after have the pressure our of the spinnaker. (check the picture)
A seperate tack is handy too. It takes a little longer, but you have time to steer in between the drop.

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Re: Swim Prevention [Re: Gilo] #210381
05/06/10 11:56 AM
05/06/10 11:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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TEH  Offline OP
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Chicago, Illinois USA
Thanks. I think easing is the key because I had been doing my own version of the tiller pin and still having issues.

What's the sequence? I'm using a single line with a spin lock on the front beam.


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Swim Prevention [Re: TEH] #210385
05/06/10 12:13 PM
05/06/10 12:13 PM
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Posts: 439
Memphis, TN
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mikeborden Offline
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Here's what I do...

Just before I think it's time for me to start snuffing, I fall off just a bit, ease the traveler and the main, set the tiller on the boat(over the side), do the kneeling thing that I was talking about, put you foot on the tiller, pop the cleat, and then start snuffing. By the time you get to the mark, you should be almost done snuffing. If that's the case, you can use your foot on the tiller to start rounding up. Again, thats only doable if you have enough sheet and traveler out, cause if you have it sheeted too much and you start rounding, OVER you go.

It sounds complicated, but it's doable. You have to be creative on the third hand. smile



Viper USA 132

1984 Hobie 18
Re: Swim Prevention [Re: mikeborden] #210402
05/06/10 03:13 PM
05/06/10 03:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline
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Maryland
Originally Posted by mikeborden
Here's what I do...

Just before I think it's time for me to start snuffing, I fall off just a bit, ease the traveler and the main, set the tiller on the boat(over the side), do the kneeling thing that I was talking about, put you foot on the tiller, pop the cleat, and then start snuffing. By the time you get to the mark, you should be almost done snuffing. If that's the case, you can use your foot on the tiller to start rounding up. Again, thats only doable if you have enough sheet and traveler out, cause if you have it sheeted too much and you start rounding, OVER you go.

It sounds complicated, but it's doable. You have to be creative on the third hand. smile



You've got it all figured out. LOL, No wonder the SCHRS rating is lower for the Uni wink


Kris Hathaway
Re: Swim Prevention [Re: Kris Hathaway] #210403
05/06/10 03:16 PM
05/06/10 03:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 439
Memphis, TN
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mikeborden Offline
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Your killing me! smile


Viper USA 132

1984 Hobie 18

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