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Coaching #212104
05/28/10 12:51 AM
05/28/10 12:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline OP
old hand
ncik  Offline OP
old hand

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
How much do you spend on coaching and training? True cost too, coaching fees and opportunity cost of taking time out of life to hit the water?

With all this talk about the F16 killer, let's look at the other side of the coin. We all know that crew work is the most important part of making a boat go well around a course, so what is the cost of upgrading your skill, as opposed to upgrading your boat?

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Re: Coaching [Re: ncik] #212105
05/28/10 01:25 AM
05/28/10 01:25 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Mark P Offline
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Mark P  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Not enough!
Last year I think I saved some money by training on a Friday evening instead of going straight to the YC for a drink. I also felt safer as the other members could keep an eye on me as I have a tendency to capsize. Previous to this we have employed John Pierce who has kindly given his time free on some occasions and charged on others. This coaching was carried out on weekends so the monetary costs were reasonably low. Prior to the A Class Nationals there was a coaching day. Chris didn't charge for his services but it did cost in a days lost income. I really enjoy the opportunity to be coached by top sailors, listen to there ideas and try and emulate them on the water. If I had more money and time I would probably seek out more clinics with various coaches.
The Dart Worlds are being held in the UK (Weymouth) this year, there are at least 4 Darts entering from Mumbles YC so I have offered to help them with some training. I am no coach but I can take a Committee boat out set a very small start line and do lots of starts, OK 4 cats on a starting line doesn't compare to around 150 but the principle of being in the right position at the right time does, you don't want 150 Darts in front of you on the first beat. So to some degree it doesn't matter if you just pop out on the water for an hour by yourself or employ a Pro for a day, improvements can be made, they just seem to happen a hell of a lot quicker when you are paying for somebody who knows what they are talking about.


MP*MULTIHULLS
Re: Coaching [Re: ncik] #212107
05/28/10 01:57 AM
05/28/10 01:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
We have been lucky enough that people like Greg Goodall, Daniel van Kerckhof, John Pierce and others have offered their advice in coaching sessions free of charge.

Currently I'm working on getting another such clinic by renowned olympic sailors this season in NL or Belgium. Their reaction was very encouraging.

But even if you have to pay for it then such sessions are typically well worth the investment. Another trick is to go out with two or more boats and just race eachother in close proximity and comment on eachother, sometimes even switching boats. It is surprising how much you can learn like that. Marks idea is right up there, setting a bouy and training starts. If you do such things regulary then your skills will shoot up. In my personal case such things didn't cost anything other then some phonecall costs or a tray of beer to get the other crews out etc.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 05/28/10 01:58 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Coaching [Re: Wouter] #212110
05/28/10 03:26 AM
05/28/10 03:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 94
australia
S
self_inflicted Offline
journeyman
self_inflicted  Offline
journeyman
S

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 94
australia
I feel the easiest way is practice,practice practice. I can rememeber reading that when hobie junior went back to sailing he thought he could jump on a boat and all would be good. He commented "he got smashed at the event", When he got back he just trained after work until dark, Just practiced tacks gybes, Mark roundings etc, The next event he cleared out and smashed the fleet.
I know a few seasons ago,i got the chance to sail both days of the weekend, The first day was with a mate who is a good sailor, And the second was on my own boat.I know that my boat speed increased as i knew where i was in the fleet before i started to sail with my mate.
I also think that a lot of people get caught up in what boat speed they have and if the sails are set right and what angle they are sailing at. i think that you should be sailing as the pro's say "with your head out of the boat". And sail the boat by feel, which is probably easier said than done. But it does work
Just my 2 cents worth
Richard

Re: Coaching [Re: self_inflicted] #212127
05/28/10 06:03 AM
05/28/10 06:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
All the practice in the world won't help if you are practicing the wrong things. That's where coaching is neccessary. They can tell you what you are doing wrong, and what to do to remedy it.

I've done probably 12 days of coaching in the past year, I'd like to do more but can't afford it at this stage.

Re: Coaching [Re: Karl_Brogger] #212129
05/28/10 06:17 AM
05/28/10 06:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 126
Northern Virginia
SoggyCheetoh Offline
member
SoggyCheetoh  Offline
member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 126
Northern Virginia
Practice makes Permanent


Alec D.
Pirates of the Chesapeake www.teampiratesofthechesapeake.com
Nacra20 1057 - Crew
F16 Viper 152 - Uni
Re: Coaching [Re: SoggyCheetoh] #212130
05/28/10 06:27 AM
05/28/10 06:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
+1


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Coaching [Re: pgp] #212132
05/28/10 06:49 AM
05/28/10 06:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 439
Memphis, TN
M
mikeborden Offline
addict
mikeborden  Offline
addict
M

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 439
Memphis, TN
+2

Here's an example where some coaching has come in handy...

First off, I'm new to the spin boats and I didn't trap out very much prior to buying an F16..

So, with that being said, I was having trouble getting in and out on the Trapeze. I also knew that you are better off NOT using the T-handle to go out on the trapeze, but I had to use it EVERY single time I was going out. The coach was watching me go out and he suggested using the foot strap to give me a little balance as I scooted my butt over the side and to push off with the forward foot/leg. AFter that suggestion, NO more T-handle to go out. But, you do USE the T-handle to come in. As he was watching me go off the trapeze, he also suggested raising the T-handles so I could get a little more umph out of pulling myself up onto the boat. Those two suggestions alone made a big difference on getting in and out on the trapeze. And, without those suggestions, I'm confident that I would have kept doing the same old way and not be as efficient as I am now. Don't get me wrong, I still need the practice going in and out, but I feel a LOT better about it now.

So, in summary, I don't care who you are, EVERYONE could use some coaching.

Some of the top sailors in the WORLD don't go to a race without their coach....Kind of like Tennis players, golf, and all types of sports.

It always sounds expensive, but you either spend money by doing a lot of sailing to try to get it right or you spend the same amount by getting it right without the head aches.


Mike


Viper USA 132

1984 Hobie 18
Re: Coaching [Re: mikeborden] #212193
05/28/10 05:50 PM
05/28/10 05:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
I know Robie D. has been coaching Taylor and Mathew, and they seem to be doing very well with it!


Blade F16
#777
Re: Coaching [Re: Timbo] #212284
05/30/10 06:58 PM
05/30/10 06:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline OP
old hand
ncik  Offline OP
old hand

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
How much coaching do ppl think is required to see improvements?

Re: Coaching [Re: ncik] #212285
05/30/10 07:19 PM
05/30/10 07:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
blush Improvement can be immediate. Depends on how bad your mistakes are.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Coaching [Re: ncik] #212286
05/30/10 07:32 PM
05/30/10 07:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
D
Darryn Offline
addict
Darryn  Offline
addict
D

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
On the water 45 minutes to an hour or until exhaustion sets in. Every two or three days early in the season and just before the Nats.

Off the water, 168 hours per week using books, the net and the boat rigged up on land. A regular chat with a guru to iron out the bugs is essential too.

Darryn
Mozzie
Bullet
1782


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