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Re: best vmg [Re: Jake] #215901
07/14/10 12:57 PM
07/14/10 12:57 PM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Jake
Also note that with a straight traveler in-line with the rear beam, the action of releasing the traveler down the beam actually sheets the mainsail in tighter.

1) set diamond wire tension for the conditions anticipated that day
2) upwind sailing, work the downhaul to control power in gusts combined with some light helm corrections.
3) upwind sailing, when the downhaul is no longer enough to control the power in the boat, the crew needs to set the downhaul in a moderate to upper position and start working the mainsheet in and out slightly...again in conjunction with some light helm correction.
4) when it's getting really sporty upwind, and the crew is having to really saw the main in and out deeply, it's time to drop the traveler an inch or two and leave it there. Continue working the mainsail and helm.

not sure i know what the upper position of the downhaul means (#3)

How would you set the downhaul in situation 4?

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Re: best vmg [Re: ] #215902
07/14/10 01:48 PM
07/14/10 01:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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situation 4 give the downhaul all the cowbell you have. MORE COWBELL!


Jake Kohl
Re: best vmg [Re: Jake] #215905
07/14/10 02:51 PM
07/14/10 02:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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waterbug_wpb  Offline
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make the top of that sail flap in the breeze ,make the mast look like a banana, and the sail flat as a pancake?


Jay

Re: best vmg [Re: Jake] #215906
07/14/10 02:53 PM
07/14/10 02:53 PM
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Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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hm, I don't use the downhaul without using the rotation. Pulling the downhaul only opens the leach and the lower part of the sail stays full. Thats good in waves and chop, but in most cases it is better to make the whole sail flat (=rotation plus downhaul) not just the top. But this might be different from boat to boat, sloop or uni, conventinal or wing mast.

Also I don't play the downhaul/rotator all the time (again depends if you are single or double handed). Better concentrate on course, sheet and pitch trim and only correct the big stuff with the sail trim. Maybe not the fastest way, but works for me.
Cheers,

Klaus

Re: best vmg [Re: Jake] #215907
07/14/10 03:02 PM
07/14/10 03:02 PM

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andrewscott
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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Jake
situation 4 give the downhaul all the cowbell you have. MORE COWBELL!


gotcha thanks

Re: best vmg [Re: waterbug_wpb] #215910
07/14/10 03:28 PM
07/14/10 03:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
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Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
you would think that with all this emphasis on playing the downhaul, they'd make that line a little more forgiving on the hands.... But maybe it's just me and my house bi*ch hands...


Mine is 16:1 on a cascade system. Works very well.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: best vmg [Re: Smiths_Cat] #215911
07/14/10 03:30 PM
07/14/10 03:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Originally Posted by Smiths_Cat
hm, I don't use the downhaul without using the rotation. Pulling the downhaul only opens the leach and the lower part of the sail stays full. Thats good in waves and chop, but in most cases it is better to make the whole sail flat (=rotation plus downhaul) not just the top. But this might be different from boat to boat, sloop or uni, conventinal or wing mast.

Also I don't play the downhaul/rotator all the time (again depends if you are single or double handed). Better concentrate on course, sheet and pitch trim and only correct the big stuff with the sail trim. Maybe not the fastest way, but works for me.
Cheers,

Klaus

As you pull the DH you also SHEET IN that flattens the sail.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: best vmg [Re: scooby_simon] #215912
07/14/10 03:43 PM
07/14/10 03:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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Quote
As you pull the DH you also SHEET IN that flattens the sail.

yes, but mainly in the top, because the lower part of the mast is still stiffend by the diamonds, if rotated out.
Here is a link to Landenberger sails: trim guide , which fits well to my mast. When I remember back on the Tiger, we used the rotation only between up and down wind, but not with different downhaul setting. Not clear if it because of the jib or the mast profile or because I sail better now (at least I think that I do).

Cheers,

Klaus

Re: best vmg [Re: Smiths_Cat] #215913
07/14/10 03:45 PM
07/14/10 03:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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hm, it is maybe of the straighter leech...

Re: best vmg [Re: Smiths_Cat] #215916
07/14/10 06:07 PM
07/14/10 06:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,197
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
old hand
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For those new to these adjustments...here's what found out when first learning them (Charlie Ogletree's advice to me):

1. Stay off the downhaul until you're double-trapped and still unable to depower easily with an arm's length of main sheet out. If the hull is popping up rapidly, then start inching on the downhaul until you find more control.

2. On many boats, as you apply DH, inch by inch, be sure to sanity check how much you've applied. If you put too much on for the conditions, boat will be slow, flat and require you to foot off hugely to get the hull out of the water...bad for VMG. In high wind days, Charlie stated my boat had the flattest sail in the fleet, we were footed 10-15deg lower than everyone and we were still popping the hull up (cause of the wide angle to the wind gusts). Note that when easing the DH, the sail may not actually move back up the luff track until the mainsheet is also eased momentarily...that's important! Otherwise you think you've eased DH...then crank on more at the next gust, then "ease" and repeat...ultimately you've got a sheet of plywood/barndoor for a mailsail and you've lost your race.

3. going to weather the crew sheets the main, anticipating gusts and lulls. When hull raises too far, crew eases just enough main to control the hull height...then immediately re-sheets BEFORE the hull starts to drop again...if you wait until it's on it's way down, it will likely hit the surface and slow you. If crew has to move more than 1 arm's length to maintain hull height, and you're double-trapping, then start inching the DH on.

When we starting mastering this technique, our performance went huge. Boat feels like it's on rails...each gust squirts you forward, not up in the air.

Last edited by Tornado; 07/14/10 06:08 PM.

Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: best vmg [Re: Isotope235] #215923
07/15/10 02:51 AM
07/15/10 02:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Netherlands
L
Leo Ambtman Offline OP
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Netherlands
The flatter the sail, the more forward the liftcurve (lift versus draft) goes, the higher you can sail. However the forces are lower and it will not deliver the best vmg.

Re: best vmg [Re: smv] #215975
07/17/10 06:48 PM
07/17/10 06:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
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South Florida & the Keys
I'm with you.. I think keeping the sail in a contant shape is important. I like to run the traveler from the crew spot amd let the skipper steer and use the main as a last resort to depower.


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: best vmg [Re: arbo06] #216114
07/19/10 03:22 PM
07/19/10 03:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Netherlands
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Leo Ambtman Offline OP
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Netherlands
Leave alone the traveller. It closes the slot. Mainsheet is better.

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