Announcements
New Discussions
Downhaul under spinnaker
by CapriSun. 11/12/20 09:41 AM
Tornado
by Team_Cat_Fever. 11/02/20 09:45 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship #215934
07/15/10 03:01 PM
07/15/10 03:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline OP
addict
windswept  Offline OP
addict

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
The C-Class Championships are coming upon us. All the new boats are in the water and it is shaping up to be a great event.
Cogito
Aethon
Alfa
Orion
Canaan
PLVI
Inviticus
Off Yer Rocker?

There will be US, Canadian, British, Australian and French teams though they may not all be flying their own flags. Great sailors; Clark, Ashby, Eaton, Guck, Spithill, Larson, Kaiser, Moore, Gaynor, Koch, Levaillant and more. The shore teams are also quite the crew. MacClane and Hubbard on the US team with many more names to follow and Norman Wijker, Julien Chausee, Phil Brown, Andrew Boome, Mark Bishop, Pete Baker and Helena Darvelid on the British team with Rossi Milev, Jen Clarke, Peter Wickwire, Dirty boy, AKA dirty boy, Steve Killing, Bill Coxedge and the guys at Multimatic for the Canadians. And many more! What everyone needs to look at in terms of sharing information is that these guys are doing that. They are doing it within the class to help foster growth, promote development and to ensure great competition. I hope that those of you who can, go to the evnent You will see some great racing, amazing technology and meet some of the finest cat racers out there.

There are a couple of threads going on at different sites.
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?s=81bf8f912f6c4c2557ba292b1200a183&showforum=37
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=110588
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/little-americas-cup-2010-c-class-real-one-32301-4.html

I wish all the teams the best of luck and hope to see some of you there.
(Rick, I do not know if I am allowed to post links to other sites, so if not I will delete them.)

Last edited by windswept; 07/15/10 03:09 PM.

Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: windswept] #215997
07/18/10 10:13 AM
07/18/10 10:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline OP
addict
windswept  Offline OP
addict

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
From SA. Tragic update.

Well Larso you're decision to keep her in the barn was probably a good one on balance.

If you don’t want to read the long version the précis version is, we lost one wing and nearly lost a second all in ten minutes………………………

This weekend we are playing host to the French team, Benjamin and Antoine came over to see how we handle the boats and to get to know PL in the shop back in the city.

Yesterday AM we set up Orion and Canann for a sail and some two boat testing. Fredo and I on Canaad and Robbie and Dan or Orion. We knew there were some squalls in the forecast but nothing too heavy from the sounds of it so off we went.

On leaving the harbour there was some nasty chop right at the channel entrance with the breeze seeming to be about 13 or so knots. Hogan in the tender said there was less breeze but not a big deal either way, so we proceed offshore to some flatter water. Had a good session going up and down a few times a couple of miles at a time. Things were going pretty well. We had a few big black clouds come down over the course with some more pressure, so we sailed around those.

Eventually we decided to head in and beat a bigger cell to the city. We thought we could get to the harbour where it wasn't too choppy and the French guys could have a go inside on the boats. Not a good idea to start them in this chop.

Well we sailed a few miles North then gybed East to the channel along the island. The pace was picking up the whole time, we were taking it as slow as we could and still doing 16-20's. Orion was about a mile behind us and we were happy to see them taking it slow. As we approached the spit we paced the Lake Ontario 300 crowd who was sliding downhill just off the city. Once we got to the spit we had to execute another gybe as we were out of water. So it was flat and getting breezy by this point but no big worries, we put the helm over, popped the wing and blasted off on port straight towards the channel. Now things were getting choppy again and crowded with 4KSB's and all manner of dinghies. We were almost making the channel so we decided to slide low to avoid another two gybes in a busy channel. The pace is picking up and the waves steeper.
Finally as we got to the mouth of the Eastern Gap we were following a Bene 50. They were heading in as well on Port, the same as us. no problem, we'd slide to leeward of them once inside the channel. We're now doing 20, with the wing flat against the shrouds and nowhere to ease out, two hulls down blasting through the back of the chop.

I look up to see the Bene spin out in a puff to their left. No problem, we're going to his right, another hundred yards and we'll be in the channel, flatter water and we can head up and have room to breathe. Another puff, I'm leaning back to hold the edge of the tramp and Fred is right off the transom. Then the Bene continues his spin out and crash tacks and ends up heading back almost towards us. No worries, Fred slides a little deeper, we're almost by the lee now and moments from getting past him and into safety. But alas, the behemoth has his jib still pegged to windward and is now bearing away uncontrollably hunting us in a crowded channel. We're now doing 22 and more pressure hits. The Bene lays down further as we try sliding even further to the lee, there's no hope of gybing out of this right were we are with our bows in the back of a wave every 5 seconds and the wing completely barn doored.

One last blast,,,,and,,,,we're done. both bows go down the mine in a big hard puff. My eyes are just forward as I desperately am leaning back trying for the back beam. Then I lose it, sliding forward on the tramp feet first. On the way down I know this means the unthinkable in a flash, the wing is gonna be gone, just try not to eat carbon or get killed. Green water back to the beam with the wing accelerating forward the platform at 45 degrees into the water. I manage to grab the mast step on the way by the wing so I won’t get mowed down by the boat. My feet hit the water so hard my shoe gets blown off my foot. I am lifting my head up to get one last breath when I see Fredo go airborne, again, over my head, way way way over my head, I see him long enough that I can watch him cannonball into the water 40 feet away from me at the tip of the wing. I thought well at least he's clear.

The wing hits the water about the same time I do so I cannot hear anything. Just as fast the boat pops up out of the water and flips over on one side. !@$)($%*)!!!!!. Then it gets weird. I am hanging in my harness from the wing just above the water. I had been strapped in acting as a running backstay and I'm still plugged in. I desperately try to get unhooked but I cannot lift myself off the hook. The boat starts downhill at 5-6 knots. With the tramp up there and now 30 knot gusts coming through we're picking up steam. I decide I better stay with the boat as the channel is Chaos now. The tender goes and retrieves Fredo while I try to figure something out and fast. With the tramp heading downhill and the wing up, it's not too bad, the wing is mostly in tact, if we can get this under control, we might save it. Then the next hit comes. One good waves lifts the tip of the wing and it starts to fly, very slowly, almost floating at first and then a gust picks the whole thing up and flings the boat upright.

I think, "Fantastic, I might save this" As the boat comes up it spins around and heads almost head to wind. I am still plugged into the trap so it picks me up to and I land on the tramp. I throw myself as far forward as possible off the front beam to get the bows down, then I'll go for the tiller.

Oh kiss, one more puff and the whole boat blows over backwards. Enough of the top of the wing was damaged that the drag just killed it. That's when I head the nastiest carbon crunching I have heard since they pulled the BOR mast out of the water in SD with a forklift. The trailing edge hitting the water at speed was the end of it. The boat flips on its side again. This time I am trapped under the hull with my legs wrapped around god knows what. A quick near drowning and I get out of it. I duck under the hull to the dagger board side and find Antoine clinging to the bow in the water.

He’s got the tow line with him from the tender and works at getting it onto the bow near the forestay. He finally gets that on and we get the tender to go into the breeze slowly as we’re only a hundred yards from the lee shore. We have a quick discussion about options and take a breath.

Meanwhile Fred is on the radio to Orion, I see them cruising slowly down the South side of the outer harbour with a partially cacked wing, the clew is broken on the flap. They are trying to sort out where to gybe in some flat water to make for the inner harbour.

Back on board we have the tender go a little faster up wind. By now we’re watching large sections of wing float off to leeward through the channel to the beach. As we move upwill the remains of the wing start to clear the water. There no way we can cut if off easily at this point and I am just thinking we have to save the platform, the wing is toast but Canaan is OK so far. A few more feet uphill and I manage to stand up on the hull and grab the bottom of the tramp, a few good tugs and we pull the boat upright.

Antoine climbed on board as the boat even with a portion of a wing started to accelerate. He helped me up and then grabbed the tiller. In a few moments we were towing through the channel and to the club. The breeze was still on and the boat still was doing 12 knots or more without the tow line taught.

We dragged the whole show back to the dock and pulled her out. By now we had sent another tender out to retrieve Orion. Despite their best efforts, Orion had a broken tiller a broken flap and serious control issues. As soon as they got back to the dock we dropped Orion’s wing first as there was still serious squalls blowing through.

Subsequently we talked to someone who had sailed past us in the channel right before we killed it they had reported a 41 knot gust less than a KM from the death zone.

Later in the day some nice folks at St James Town YC called us to say they had retrieved some of our wing. We popped out to find out upper #3 in only 2 pieces, which was encouraging.

So a big thanks to Antoine for literally jumping right in there, Ben and Hogan for tender support, the guys at SJYC for getting #3 for us, Irwin and the boys for on shore help and as always. most of all, Fredo for making it all possible.

Now the big push is on to get the new Canaan wing out of the shop in the next week and functional. Then we have to fix the 06 wing which will now go on Alpha instead of Orion.
Unfortunately this now means 6 boats for the event. There is a slim chance that Robbie could stitch that wing back together in time for the event, but it’s a long shot. So we’ll see how that all goes.

We all knew this was the risk of sailing these boats and in retrospect it would have been prudent to head in after we saw the first squall. But C’est la vie.

More to report later 

Blunted


Last edited by windswept; 07/18/10 10:14 AM.

Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: windswept] #215998
07/18/10 10:25 AM
07/18/10 10:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
I'm glad all the people are okay. Hope you're keeping a chronicle, this deserves it's own chapter.

Pictures of the carnage. http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/in...pid=2922096&st=450&#entry2922096

Last edited by pgp; 07/18/10 10:41 AM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: pgp] #216218
07/20/10 06:38 PM
07/20/10 06:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 190
lesburn1 Offline
member
lesburn1  Offline
member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 190


lesburn1.blogspot.com

A-Cat USA 49
18Sq 49

member- Royal Society for Making Cool Stuff
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: lesburn1] #216239
07/21/10 06:04 AM
07/21/10 06:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Great stuff! Best of luck to all.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: pgp] #216271
07/21/10 02:16 PM
07/21/10 02:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 66
ccat Offline
journeyman
ccat  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 66

Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: ccat] #216289
07/21/10 07:24 PM
07/21/10 07:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Oooph. That hurts to see. Knowing the incredible amount of personal effort those two put into that boat and that wing! The boat sure looked slippery through the water though. I bet they'll be quick.


Jake Kohl
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: Jake] #216311
07/22/10 06:44 AM
07/22/10 06:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
OK, one 'dumb' question:

Where are the foils? Or are lifting foils not allowed in the C class? I thought I saw a C cat with foils some years ago, did they abandon the concept? I was just watching some You Tube vids of the Moths up on foils and it is obvious that would be the shortest way to going faster, wing or no wing, but get -both- hulls up out of the water. Of course, being a pilot, I am biased towards "flying" being faster than sailing, but the birds figured it out a long time ago, so where is the cat development towards foiling?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BZwM2LDCb4&feature=fvw


Blade F16
#777
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: Timbo] #216313
07/22/10 06:50 AM
07/22/10 06:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Where you been? You going to Gilligan's?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: pgp] #216314
07/22/10 06:59 AM
07/22/10 06:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
I've been flying my butt off all summer, just got in from Dubai yesterday, going to Tel Aviv on Saturday. I'm working nearly every weekend in August too...next regatta on my schedule is Wildcat, Oct. 1-3. See ya there!


Blade F16
#777
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: Timbo] #216317
07/22/10 07:29 AM
07/22/10 07:29 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



While your in the area... please go and punch Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the gnuts for me smile

Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: ] #216318
07/22/10 07:33 AM
07/22/10 07:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
Sometimes we fly over Iran on the way into Dubai, I always go back and piss in the sink when we get near Tehran...

(the sinks drain directly overboard where as the toilets go into holding tanks)


Blade F16
#777
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: Timbo] #216324
07/22/10 07:59 AM
07/22/10 07:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Timbo
OK, one 'dumb' question:

Where are the foils? Or are lifting foils not allowed in the C class? I thought I saw a C cat with foils some years ago, did they abandon the concept? I was just watching some You Tube vids of the Moths up on foils and it is obvious that would be the shortest way to going faster, wing or no wing, but get -both- hulls up out of the water. Of course, being a pilot, I am biased towards "flying" being faster than sailing, but the birds figured it out a long time ago, so where is the cat development towards foiling?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BZwM2LDCb4&feature=fvw


The foils actually didn't work out so well as they created too much drag through the water and slowed the boat down. The hulls were able to be airborn but it was still slower than a boat in the water. There's a physical trade-off between the width/length/weight of these boats and building something that can foil without the foils having to work too hard which creating more drag. I'm not sure that they'll be able to create a boat within this length/width parameters that can foil and be faster than building a floating boat to the optimum length and width. There does appear to be some advantages by splitting the difference and having foils that provide ~some~ lift but don't make the boat airborn.


Jake Kohl
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: Timbo] #216325
07/22/10 08:07 AM
07/22/10 08:07 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by Timbo
Sometimes we fly over Iran on the way into Dubai, I always go back and piss in the sink when we get near Tehran...

(the sinks drain directly overboard where as the toilets go into holding tanks)


Superb~!
Well done.

PS i recall the urinals in the c-130's were little triangles on the wall of the plane... and i always wondered about who was under the plane at the time of use.

Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: Jake] #216327
07/22/10 08:20 AM
07/22/10 08:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
I'm still waiting for one of the Moth guys to hitch two of them together and call it a "Cat". The only bit to be worked out would be the sailplan. Would you keep the set up as it is today, two sails on two masts, like Pete Goss' Team Philips cat, or would you try to go with one larger mast in the middle, like a conventional cat? Or a single wing, like the C cats? Anything you put in the center of the fwd. beam is going to add wt. as you'd have to beef up the structure to support it. I did like Dave Carsons Jackalope A cat design!


Blade F16
#777
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: Timbo] #216331
07/22/10 08:24 AM
07/22/10 08:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Originally Posted by Timbo
I'm still waiting for one of the Moth guys to hitch two of them together and call it a "Cat".

Thats already been done (sort of).
http://www.foils.org/gallery/cclass2.jpg
[Linked Image]

Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: Tony_F18] #216339
07/22/10 10:12 AM
07/22/10 10:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
Yeah, that's the one I had seen, never heard why they gave up on the development of it however until Jake's post above.


Blade F16
#777
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: Timbo] #216343
07/22/10 10:39 AM
07/22/10 10:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Timbo
Yeah, that's the one I had seen, never heard why they gave up on the development of it however until Jake's post above.


After the early competition with that boat in the last little AC, they cut the t-foils off mid week to try and get some speed out of it. They were in the air but were slow compared to the other boats.


Jake Kohl
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: Jake] #216345
07/22/10 12:33 PM
07/22/10 12:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,047
Sebring, Florida.
That's interesting that even up on foils they were slower, but maybe the foils were too small and required too much angle of attack (and thus drag) to get it airborne? Of course if you go with longer foils you also incure more drag...it sure seems to work for the Moths, I wonder why not for the cats.


Blade F16
#777
Re: The I4C (LAC) C-Class Championship [Re: Timbo] #216346
07/22/10 12:44 PM
07/22/10 12:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Maybe water is too dense?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 42 guests, and 242 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
jamieoklahoma, CameronB, stampdk, lwalling, PavelRu
8076 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Timbo 1
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,383
Posts267,009
Members8,076
Most Online1,650
Sep 10th, 2019
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1