The event was named for Hobie Alter because he once promoted the one-design aspect of a regatta. The Alter Cup is based on the premise that a round-robin rotation on provided boats where tuning is restricted is more fair and equal than "run what you brung." I would contend that it is more fair and equal than any other one-design event. Even for the Hobie 16 events where boats are provided, there are those that "know" how to tune a boat. The Alter Cup tries to get at those who "know" how to sail it.

I'm not making any judgement about other events here! I'm just stating what is different about Alter Cup.

OMG, you're not recommending Gerrymandering?

Run the AC just as it is now. Run an expanded format to boost attendance.

Offering USS Class Championships might draw more attendance, particularly if the results were used to establish the Portsmouth number.

As it is now, the Portsmouth handicap has little credibility. IF you run a regatta specifically to establish the handicap numbers, folks might try a little harder.

Attendance and format for the Finals isn't the problem. There are plenty of people that want to go every year. Boosting attendance at the Regional events is the issue... and the Regional ladder events are already "run-what-you-brung."

If the final is not a problem, why does it rely on petitions to fill up?

Membership in USS is a problem. Most cat sailors don't see any value in it. IF you designated class championships, that might change. It is certain that if you don't try no one will ever know for certain.

Maybe people really, realy don't like portsmouth racing and that's why they don't show up for regionals!

Can you start a list of classes that want US SAILING involved in their Class championships? This shouldn't take long.

Pete, in order to "try" something, you first have to have an effective understanding of the problem. The Finals have a big draw of interested participants, the ladder events do not... I think that framing the Finals as the root of the problem is not the best way to approach it. Or are you suggesting that there be 10 ladder events, all designated as Class championships?

It's also worth noting that there are selections that do come from various class championships throughout the country. Both Nacra and Hobie get to send a selected team (who is urged to be a champion of one of their classes) and (I believe) the manufacturer that is supplying boats gets to send a team. In addition to that, a rotating class (which has most recently been the formula classes that don't have a single manufacturer) is selected each year to send it's national champ (or down to 3rd place)...so class championships are represented.

As John said, how do you get people to the qualifier. Why are the qualifiers low in attendance? In area D, we have consistently had pretty good turnout at both the Dn and the Ds and we usually duke it out to be the area with the largest qualifier in the country. What are we doing differently? Personally, I enjoy the event and racing on handicap is a somewhat unusual challenge for me since I mostly race within a class. The guys we sail with are tough too and it's freakin fun working out how far ahead you have to be or behind you can be to beat someone...lots of great conversation. AND the qualifier results help add to the portsmouth results for more accurate ratings.

For you guys that don't go to your qualifiers - why does it get a low priority on your regatta list?

Firstly, I understand the problem very well. The Alter Cup is dying and nothing is being done to prevent it.

A good part of the reason is USS's lack of credibility within the catamaran community. The rank and file do not feel represented. If you don't value the organization, why would you value their championship?

USS's Portsmouth numbers are not respected. The reporting is spotty at best. Why would a serious sailor compete in a system which he does not find credible?

Lastly, not everyone agrees that "no tuning" is the best way to determine a true champion. I am one of them. I would give much greater credence to a champion who brings a boat on which he is thorougly familiar and is set up to his, or her, best advantage.

USS has the opportunity to solve all three of these problems with a single event.

There is an old saying, "If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting." A significant change is in order, imo.

I disagree with just about every bit of that post and I've competed in three and managed three AC Championships. NOTHING is more fair than sailors sailing boats that are setup identically. Nothing pits sailor skill against sailor skill in the same way. It's a different, and IMHO, the most humbling and pure way to compete. How you setup your diamond wires does not make you a better or more deserving sailor. How you use your mind and skill to use the wind, the water, and your competition does.

Interest and participation in the championship is actually up. It's the area qualifiers, as evident by the subject matter of this post, that are suffering.

Disagree all you like but in doing so you must believe there is no problem with the handicap system, there is approval of USS in general, and that no one disagrees with the "no tuning" aspect of the AC.

Does any other class determine it's champion by swapping boats? Or disallowing individual tuning?

Of course there are problems with portsmouth. Of course the rotation system isn't perfect in every way. Of course you can never have 10 boats that are completely identical (although I've run the statistics on the boats for two years and they've empirically been extremely even throughout the results) - but we don't live in Eutopia. Everything is a compromise in some way but I believe we have a great balance with what we have.

I also understand the exacting detail in the Portsmouth system and I'm a big fan of the level headed and incredible thought and energy that went into developing the statistics and math that went into it and the resulting numbers. Again, same deal; the problem here is that the people don't put in the energy to support it by competing in their qualifiers or sending in their portsmouth results on a regular basis. Even considering that, I believe it works pretty well. The only way to improve on it is to find a system that nobody has to do anything with to maintain it or find a way to get people more interested.

Why don't people attend qualifiers in massive numbers? Why was area C less attractive to all of the cat sailors in the area?

Pete, you demonstrate that you don't understand... the Alter Cup is booked out for the next two years. It isn't "dying." There are people who have been at it, year after year, making it better and better. The qualifying events are in decline, however. Keep focused on the topic of the thread... Area C got canned because people didn't sign up. There will be, beyond a doubt, Area C sailors that want to go to the Finals, though. Without being punitive, how do you make the ladder more attractive? Or, do you just do away with the ladder? That is the sort of re-think that is needed.

Yes they do in a moderately similar fashion with provided boats - Hobie 16 worlds. Besides I would argue that the lack of tuning and even boats is what makes this event even more prestigious. NASCAR IROC is a similar example - the championship of champions.

Do as you like. You're selecting a champion from a very small group of legitimate contenders. It will be interesting to see if the "pool" of potential champions has increased in the next two years and if the depth of quality of competition has increased.

Change is certain. The fact that a small number of you have made a prodigous, passionate effort in support of the cup doesn't mean you are right. Time will tell.

I hope you're right.

I think we are getting wayyy off track here. The "problem" is/was Area C's turn out for their Alter Cup qualifier, right?

Perhaps we should hear from some Area C sailors as to why they didn't sign up?

As for myself, I'd go to the Area D south regatta not to qualify for the Alter Cup, but just to have a good time at a good regatta, if it were -do able- time off wise, kitchen pass wise, etc.

Maybe the guys in are C are just not too motivated to go to the Alter Cup, so they don't feel they need to show up for the qualifier, especaially if they are already 'overscheduled' with many other regattas?

And if the Alter Cup is supposed to be about who is the best sailor, why not sail it on the Vipers as Uni's? There is nothing more challenging than sailing a spin cat solo!

"The "problem" is/was Area C's turn out for their Alter Cup qualifier, right?"

Superficially. Besides, you're late to the party. We already had last call.

Last call?? Already??

"But ossifer...I had to drive, I couldn't walk!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDzcYerwE4s

Step, bump, step bump bump...

"Can you start a list of classes that want US SAILING involved in their Class championships? This shouldn't take long."

Two different regattas. "U.S. F16 Class association Championship" as averse to "USS F16 Championship". It gives the option of attending one or the other, or both.

The idea of a "USS Class Championship" was intended to generate more interest in USS and the AC.