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stable sitting position on hull #217947
08/21/10 02:58 PM
08/21/10 02:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 18
tikoes Offline OP
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tikoes  Offline OP
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Today I pitch poled my FX One while using the spinnaker.
While sitting on the hull (trapeze hooked) I suddenly moved forward, bringing to much weight to the front ...
When sitting I have problems finding a stable position, usually I push my feet against the strap on the trapeze, but with a sudden wave this sometimes is not enough. On the new Nacra F18's I noticed extra bars on the trampoline (next to the straps).

How do you people to this, any practical tips?

bart



Tikoes FX One 203
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Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: tikoes] #217948
08/21/10 03:41 PM
08/21/10 03:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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Hamburg
method a)
grab the tiller crossbar instead of the tiller extension

method b)
stitch or knot the foot strap to the trampoline some feet from the rear beam so you can still put your feet under, but which will prevent sliding forward

Cheers,

Klaus

Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: Smiths_Cat] #217949
08/21/10 04:20 PM
08/21/10 04:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Northfield Mn
On the FXone pulling the boards up 6-8", (or sometimes more), helps immensely going downwind. That thing has way too much dagger board under it.

In rough water & heavier air I would let the tiller extension drag, and just use the tiller cross bar. If the world started coming apart I'd usually hook my arm around the rear crossbar.


I'm boatless.
Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: Smiths_Cat] #217950
08/21/10 04:40 PM
08/21/10 04:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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pepin  Offline
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France
Originally Posted by Smiths_Cat
method a)
grab the tiller crossbar instead of the tiller extension
It may work on the FX-1, with its big aluminum crossbar, but don't do that if your crossbar is a nice light and shiny carbon one. Don't ask me how I know...

Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: pepin] #217956
08/22/10 02:56 AM
08/22/10 02:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Steve_Kwiksilver Offline
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Pepin, you made me laugh.. I too have heard the sound of a nice slender carbon crossbar altering it`s shape.. Now have a nice aluminium one.

"In rough water & heavier air I would let the tiller extension drag, and just use the tiller cross bar. If the world started coming apart I'd usually hook my arm around the rear crossbar."
Karl, you forgot to add "and shout DIVE ! DIVE ! DIVE !"

Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: pepin] #217960
08/22/10 06:05 AM
08/22/10 06:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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Hamburg
It is a question of good engineering practice and safety thinking not to make the tiller extension and tiller crossbar out of CFRP.

I am always scared when sailing downwind with the boards up. Either the edge waiting for cutting you in two or the boards are flying after you after a pitchpole.
I like the Tornado or H17 bords for that reason.

Cheers,

Klaus

Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: Smiths_Cat] #217961
08/22/10 06:34 AM
08/22/10 06:34 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Mark P Offline
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Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
At the recent Euro's I found a new sitting position for myself during the windier races. I sat on top of the rear beam almost pointing forward. I grabbed both the tiller and crossbar with one hand slightly behind me. Considering the runs were fast and 1 mile long it was a very comfortable ride. I also trapped at times and crouched in the middle of tramp at other times. You've just got to keep moving around to suit the conditions.
Putting surf wax on your tramp is an excellent way to stop you slipping around wasting valuable time and energy.


MP*MULTIHULLS
Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: Mark P] #217963
08/22/10 06:45 AM
08/22/10 06:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline
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Easy solution, change the FX0ne, my one sailing experiance of the FXone was just how easy it was to stuff the nose down, big powerful sail with very heavy mast on slender hulls, mmmmm. smile

Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: tikoes] #217967
08/22/10 07:50 AM
08/22/10 07:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 264
Long Island, NY
gregP19 Offline
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Posts: 264
Long Island, NY
Originally Posted by tikoes
Today I pitch poled my FX One while using the spinnaker.
While sitting on the hull (trapeze hooked) I suddenly moved forward, bringing to much weight to the front ...
When sitting I have problems finding a stable position, usually I push my feet against the strap on the trapeze, but with a sudden wave this sometimes is not enough. On the new Nacra F18's I noticed extra bars on the trampoline (next to the straps).

How do you people to this, any practical tips?

bart

If you're sitting on the tramp you can use your feet to stabilize by putting one ankle under the footstrap and the other foot on top.


G Gove Blade #728 Long Island, New Yawk
Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: waynemarlow] #217982
08/22/10 11:14 AM
08/22/10 11:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 18
tikoes Offline OP
stranger
tikoes  Offline OP
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Posts: 18
Thanks for the suggestions.
Indeed, collision with the sharp side of the dagger boards is extremely painful!
I will trade in my FX-One for a Blade (just needed a good reason ;-)) with surf wax!

Bart


Tikoes FX One 203
Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: tikoes] #217985
08/22/10 01:31 PM
08/22/10 01:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
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Posts: 2,584
+31NL
I sailed one for a few years and I didn't find it pitchpoles that quickly, it sure has a lot more volume up front then a Blade.
The times when I did capsize was because of bad (read:slow wink ) gybe
Best thing to do is to throw the joystick behind the boat and steer with the crossbar.
If you can you can put your feet on the daggerboard or under the straps.
Ideally you should use the trapeze and a chickenwire, then you can stuff it hard and still recover since the weight stays at the back of the boat.

Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: tikoes] #217993
08/22/10 06:31 PM
08/22/10 06:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
When it's "pitchpole probable" conditions, I have my boards up a bit, the windier, the more up, and then I can brace myself from sliding forward by putting my front foot up against the back edge of the uprasied board (booties on of course!) and my rear foot is hooked under the hiking strap. I toss the tiller extension out back and use the tiller arm to steer, not the crossbar, bent too many already!

The best way to prevent the pitchpole however is to be constantly looking back for the next big gust and bear off -before- it hits, loads up the mainsail and starts the bow going under, because once that bow goes deep, you're toast, even faster if you slide foreward when you first stuff the bow. If you can stay at the back, bear off and ease the spin sheet, you might save it....or not. But I have found going lower/slower on two hulls vs. higher/faster on one to be the safer option in big wind.

I've been able to get it skipping on top of the waves by 'going ugly early' on two hulls when the big gusts hit, but you have to keep those bows up and your weight back.


Blade F16
#777
Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: Timbo] #218530
08/30/10 07:56 AM
08/30/10 07:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Here's an Update to the above technique:

Yesterday I went out in some pretty good wind, I would guess it was about 15 with gusts to 20+. I had left my two dinged up boards at a buddy's house for him to fix them up, and I've only got one spare, but it was blowing so nice I couldn't stay on the beach, so I said, "Fk it, I'm going with one board!"

Well it went upwind as you would expect on the one tack where the boarded hull was down, but what surprised me was how well it went upwind, on the other tack, with NO board! The boarded hull was up out of the water, so there was no board in at all.

I was really impressed, but I didn't have another boat to compare my sideslip to, I'm sure I was slipping quite a bit and there was a lot of weather helm (no jib, that might have helped ballance it out) but I was able to point pretty well and had good speed through the water, on one hull, with no board!

Now, here is the "Ah Hah" moment. When I turned to go downwind and launched the spinny, I got into some pretty good puffs, and I was hauling butt...but the bows didn't dive nearly as much as they usually do when going downwind in similar condtions with both boards down, half way.

I was really impressed at how well it behaved and how hard I could bear off in the gusts and NOT stuff the bows to the mast. I did it on one hull and on two, just to see what worked best, and the difference with the no-board hull vs. the half-board hull was clearly in favor of no-board, if you don't want to stuff it in the gusts.

I even pulled the one board out and put it on the tramp just to see what would happen for an hour or so.

I spent about 3 hours total, just testing what worked and what didn't, but I was amazed at how much better and more stable it was going downwind in a good blow with no boards. It's supposed to blow 15+ again today so I'll be back out there, with one board and no boards, just playing and testing.

Pete, get your butt over here today and we can do some two boat testing upwind, I would like to see how much sideslip I'm getting with no boards...


Blade F16
#777
Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: Timbo] #218536
08/30/10 08:25 AM
08/30/10 08:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
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Posts: 5,525
The boats in pieces, hoping to get out later in the week.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: pgp] #218537
08/30/10 08:28 AM
08/30/10 08:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Ouch! Why? You doing some spring cleaning? Or did something go...snap? I should probably take mine apart and re-putty everything, and replace all the rivets on the traveler too, but...I'm too lazy! I'd rather be out sailing if there's wind.


Blade F16
#777
Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: Timbo] #218546
08/30/10 08:43 AM
08/30/10 08:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Routine maintenance.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: pgp] #218548
08/30/10 08:44 AM
08/30/10 08:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Is the Tiki up and running? That would make a great committee boat, can you bring it over here for a regatta this winter?


Blade F16
#777
Re: stable sitting position on hull [Re: Timbo] #218593
08/30/10 02:33 PM
08/30/10 02:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
blush The Tiki... I can't decide what to do about the deck. It's designed to be wooden with built in mount for a small outboard. The wood has completely rotted away. I doubt it was ever built to specs. I have a half formed notion about a vinyl tramp, like we use on the beach cats. But, the details elude me.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.


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