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Gelcoat #218461
08/28/10 11:06 PM
08/28/10 11:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
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I bought a small can of white gelcoat from West Marine today, and my understanding was that it doesn't need the wax layer over the top to harden up. This'll sound bad....... but I just can't get it hard!

Do I need the wax? Or am I not adding enough catalyst? I'm just touching up a daggerboard tip and some edges that got bunged up, so I'm just dabbing it on and not spraying. I'm mixing 3 or 4 ounces at a time, and probably putting in ~10 drops or so of the catalyst. The directions on the back says it should go off in 10 minutes, and I'm left with a rubbery product after an hour.

Temp is about 80F, humidity was 60% or so.

I'm scared, confused, pissed off, and armed. mad


I'm boatless.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Gelcoat [Re: Karl_Brogger] #218462
08/28/10 11:29 PM
08/28/10 11:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
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You go Karl! Good luck, I'd always heard covering it in wax paper worked. I dunno thougn.


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: Gelcoat [Re: Karl_Brogger] #218463
08/28/10 11:44 PM
08/28/10 11:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 216
Lakewood, Colorado
MUST429 Offline
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Lakewood, Colorado
Wax paper laid over the wet gel always works for me.

Just be sure to lay it on smoothly so there aren't any air bubbles under the paper. leaves voids that require another "dose" of gel.

either that, or grind up one of your Viagra tabs and stir it into the mix ! grin


Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Re: Gelcoat [Re: Karl_Brogger] #218464
08/28/10 11:46 PM
08/28/10 11:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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If the resin is hard but the surface is sticky then you need wax (or more of it) if the it just stays rubbery in the pot you didn't put enough hardener in it...

Here is the quick and dirty assessment, lot of problems are caused by not mixing it well...too many people put the MEKP in the resin and run the stir stick around the container a couple times....you need to thoroughly mix it...also you don't work out of you mixing cup...especially with small batches, as the resin on the sides of the cup rarely get completely mixed...so mix in one cup then pour it into another to actually work from...those two things will save you a lot of headaches.

Did you stir the resin can well before you poured off what you were going to use? If not, the wax will not be mixed throughout the resin and if you do little batches at a time, by the time you are half way thru the can, most of the wax has been used (floats to the top) and your gelcoat surface won't harden . I have found that most Gelcoats that come "with wax" seem to have a marginal amount of wax at best, I make it a practice to put in an additional small amount to insure a good hard sandable surface.

In general it sounds like you went light on the MEKP but its hard to say for sure as they there are other factors to consider...

Regards,
Bob

Re: Gelcoat [Re: Seeker] #218466
08/29/10 02:55 AM
08/29/10 02:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
SurfCityRacing Offline
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Santa Cruz, CA
Karl,
Go watch my gelcoat vid on youtube. Occlude o2 with plastic or PVA or whatever. If that doesn't work, the gel is old, notorious at big box marine because hardly anyone that knows how to use it buys it there. You can spike old gel with a few drops of cobalt, if you have any of that super toxic stuff laying around. Most people don't.

Go up to your local glass guy and have him pour you a quart from his drum. have him mix in a little Duratec Clear.


Hope that helps.


Re: Gelcoat [Re: SurfCityRacing] #218470
08/29/10 05:12 AM
08/29/10 05:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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Apply some heat from a hair dryer. Gently.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Gelcoat [Re: pgp] #218473
08/29/10 07:48 AM
08/29/10 07:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by pgp
Apply some heat from a hair dryer. Gently.


Good advice up there...but heat won't fix what appears to me an air inhibited cure. Once that has happened, there is no going back unless it involves chemicals to strip it off.

I have had failure of the wax eat my lunch and steal my girlfriend before (or failure to correctly follow some of the advice listed above). I much prefer to top coat the repair with PVA or use Duratech additive - i feel they are much more reliable options to the wax.

Last edited by Jake; 08/29/10 07:49 AM.

Jake Kohl
Re: Gelcoat [Re: Jake] #218475
08/29/10 08:30 AM
08/29/10 08:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
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Northfield Mn
Thanks guys, and Pete. laugh I wouldn't be surprised if the stuff was old. Boating in Minnesota is extremely popular, virtually everyone has a boat of some variation, but most are aluminum fishing boats, and I don't know anyone up here who does their own repairs on glass. There just is many places to source supplies, being new to this a bit unnerving as well. Wood is so simple in comparison.

I thought I was mixing well enough, both when it was in the can prior to adding the catalyst, and after it was added. I'll try pouring it off in a seperate container once mixed, and then covering it with some plastic after its applied.


I'm boatless.
Re: Gelcoat [Re: Karl_Brogger] #218476
08/29/10 09:16 AM
08/29/10 09:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 216
Lakewood, Colorado
MUST429 Offline
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MUST429  Offline
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Lakewood, Colorado
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
and then covering it with some plastic after its applied.

DO NOT Use Plastic
If you do, you will be even more unhappy than you already are.
Wax paper is the only way to go.


Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Re: Gelcoat [Re: MUST429] #218479
08/29/10 10:26 AM
08/29/10 10:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
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Is parchment paper the same thing as wax paper?
I'm thinking not.


I'm boatless.
Re: Gelcoat [Re: Karl_Brogger] #218480
08/29/10 10:30 AM
08/29/10 10:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Is parchment paper the same thing as wax paper?
I'm thinking not.


Wax paper is Wax paper Karl.

You get it at the grocery store next to the tin foil. confused


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Gelcoat [Re: Mugrace72] #218485
08/29/10 11:05 AM
08/29/10 11:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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...next to the parchment. Parchment is used in baking; in the oven.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Gelcoat [Re: Mugrace72] #218496
08/29/10 05:04 PM
08/29/10 05:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mugrace72

Wax paper is Wax paper Karl.

You get it at the grocery store next to the tin foil. confused


Right, I know where my hats come from. smile I was just fishing around in the pantry, (I wrote panty the 1st time, which'd be odd if I came across parchment), anyway, and I found parchment paper. It worked, nothing stuck to it. Blue 3M masking tape refused to sick so I figured it'd work.

The stuff I put down last night was rock hard this morning, so I roughed out the sanding and figured out where I needed to build it up more yet and laid down a second coat. I put in way more hardener than I thought I needed, and I probably did go too much because it started to thicken in a few minutes. It was also 90F today, but that set hard in 1/2hr, which was helped a bit by the sun.

They aren't perfect, but both have tips again. I need to do some more touch ups yet, but I'm leaving for Nebraska tomorrow morning, so thats not going to happen.

Thanks again for the help guys!


I'm boatless.
Re: Gelcoat [Re: Karl_Brogger] #218511
08/30/10 03:58 AM
08/30/10 03:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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rate of reaction = heat of reaction


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Gelcoat [Re: Karl_Brogger] #218518
08/30/10 07:18 AM
08/30/10 07:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 48
Minneapolis, MN
B Carlson Offline
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B Carlson  Offline
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Posts: 48
Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
[quote=Mugrace72]

The stuff I put down last night was rock hard this morning,


If its still rock hard after 4 hours call a doctor.

Re: Gelcoat [Re: B Carlson] #218553
08/30/10 09:04 AM
08/30/10 09:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline
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Mike Hill  Offline
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St. Louis, MO,
Grab some of your girl's hair spray. Spray it on there. Then apply just a little heat from a hair dryer. Don't go melting anything. That will start the reaction. Wait 24 hours then sand.



Mike Hill
N20 #1005
Re: Gelcoat [Re: Mike Hill] #218575
08/30/10 11:33 AM
08/30/10 11:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline
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Chicago, Illinois USA
Mike, do you find this works better than PVA? A lot cheaper...probably easier to cover with as well. No drip.


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Gelcoat [Re: TEH] #218577
08/30/10 11:40 AM
08/30/10 11:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline
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Mike Hill  Offline
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No better or worse really. I like it better because it comes in an airasol(sp?) spray can. So I can just keep it in my kit and it's ready to go. You can mist it lightly and it gets a decent finish.


Mike Hill
N20 #1005
Re: Gelcoat [Re: Karl_Brogger] #218579
08/30/10 11:53 AM
08/30/10 11:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
J
JACKFLASH Offline
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I think your ratio's are off. When using layup resin one ounce of resin would use 10 drops of hardner. I would assume that gelcoat would be a similar property. Pledge in the spray can is a great air inhibitor and readily available.


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: Gelcoat [Re: B Carlson] #218582
08/30/10 12:23 PM
08/30/10 12:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by B Carlson
[quote=Karl_Brogger]

If its still rock hard after 4 hours call a doctor.


Grab some of your girl's hair spray. Spray it on there. Then apply just a little heat from a hair dryer. Don't go melting anything. That will start the reaction. Wait 24 hours then sand.

Do you still have to go to the doctor?


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
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