A little help please.

I've met a very nice lady in local government who is trying to help me in my quest for better beach access locally. She needs to "better articulate" to her bosses why I won't or can't launch from a ramp.

So that you and I are on the same page. I've never actually launched from a ramp. I've put the boat in on a ramp and moved it to a nearby beach to raise the sails.

Who among you has actually LAUNCHED from a ramp? What procedure is best? Can you do it solo?

Keep in mind that this matter was dumped on this lady's desk and she doesn't need, or deserve, to be part of a *storm. As far as I know, she knows nothing about catamarans.

So, I put it to you, why can't you just launch from a ramp?

Is it possible to launch from a ramp? Yes.

Is it convenient? No.

Is it safe? In my opinion and experience? No.

Our boats are lightweight and do not take to being "beaten" against a dock one launched. I still have a soft spot in my hull due to this fact. No motor or auxiliary power means that maneuverability after launching is greatly reduced resulting in damage to others' property or to other people around the ramp area.

Furthermore, the biggest challenge is getting back to the dock once you're finished. If the angle of the dock/ramp to the wind is bad, then it could be quite difficult for a novice to dock his cat there, especially since our ability to "slow down" is very limited.

I've launched from ramps/docks before. Launching from the beach, or in your case, walking the boat from a ramp to a beach, is much much better. A place to land safely is really the sticking point IMO.

You can launch from a ramp, but it all depends on the ramp. Small beach wheels are big plus...

You need space and time to raise the sails. Meaning you are going to use some ramp space to do so, you need to be facing the wind and other boaters waiting to launch their jet-ski/powerboat/kayaks/dinghies are going to be annoyed by you because they can't launch while you are in the way.

If the ramp is wide, not used by a lot of people at once, with the wind blowing from the top of the ramp toward the sea there is no issue in using the ramp at all. Raise the sails on top of the ramp, and go down with the boat facing the wind. You just need a good set of beach wheels. Once the boat is in the water, keep your boat on a leach while you are packing the beach wheels nearby.

If the wind is blowing the other direction, from the sea, it's also fine as long as the water is shallow enough for you to hold the boat facing the wind without it banging against the concrete. But you need an helper or a crew to give you a hand with the wheels unless you have a way to tie the boat while in the water. Note that if the ramp is not well protected the waves can be a big issue.

A narrow ramp with wind coming sideways is a nightmare: you can't go down the ramp with the sails up and the ramp is not wide enough to park the boat facing the wind to raise the sails...

And then there is the issue of the channel to go out from the ramp. I have not so fond memories of tacking through the harbor channel in Santa Cruz... A hobie 16 with the wind right in the channel axis, boat traffic in both directions, and waves pushing you back: not fun! Coming back is interesting as well, DDW with no way to slow down, I had a nice exchange with the harbor patrol once, they complained I was over the speed limit! I pointed out that in 25 knts of wind DDW, I had no way to slow down and they let me go.

My current club is on a reservoir all made in concrete. Our "beach" is a big concrete slab and we have two ramps on the side of the beach as well for when the water level makes the beach unusable (Map: You can see the north and south ramp as well as the beach). As the two ramps are not parallel to each other we can launch in almost any wind conditions and water level, picking the right ramp based on the wind and raising the sails before going down. (Incidentally the motorcycle and the trailer in the south parking lot are mine, try to find my Stealth on the water: I'm there...)

Tell her that is not only catamarans but also Dinghies, Kayaks, Windsurfers, Kite Boarders, and Stand Up Paddle boaders need a sandy beach area to launch from too. The more people that can benefit from it the greater chance of sucess.

Play the liability card. Reminder her that a small launching/landing area of sandy beach is much cheaper than paying a lawsuit to a plaintif if one slips and injures him/herself on a slippery concrete ramp.

Regards,
Bob

Ramps, depending on their configuration and use have issues.

What is the prevailing wind direction in relation to the ramp?

What is the ratio of power to sail using the ramp?

The biggest issue, by far, is the wind (direction and velocity). If you need to launch and recover via the ramp with the sails up, your window of opportunity to do this safely is extremely limited.

Mike

Pete:

I went through this same challenge with both Ventura County and the Ventura Port district with the exact same argument.

But, the folks I was talking at least knew what a beachcat was!

One area was called Hobie Beach, and for a for a reason. It is even recognized as this on a map! It was where we use to launch from back in the day. Any given weekend there were about 20 boats there and it was heaven, nice beach, taco stand, small grocery store, fire pit, the whole enchilada. People would come from miles away to sail there!!! It was closed after the storms in 99/00 due to erosion when they put a bunch of boulders there after they dredged the harbor.

We got that re-opened by talking to the county supervisors, local harbor people etc... with them putting a ramp to the water from the staging area. After the grand reopening, it never got used except by a few local sailors an a scattered basis. There is an article about this on Damon's site. They were not into doing anymore improvements due to the lack of use, remember improvements cost money!!!! The ramp is still there, and is being used by the kayakers and a few Laser guys, but not much else.

What is the saying; 'use it or lose it!"

Second up was Ventura Port District. They we willing to do something after we articulated to them problem with bringing a sailboat, let alone a beach cat back to the dock - a screaming beam reach. I have heard many a cat sailor say, "love to go sailing in your area, but the launch ramp is a bear to deal with." It is not hard to do with some practice, but.....

They have a lot with beach access at the mouth of the Harbor they were willing to open up for beach cats - they already have an outrigger canoe club there. We have staged a few races there as well as this is the site for the Blue Water Regatta coming up later this month. With this they were looking to do a yearly/daily use fee like Santa Barbara. Remember these things cost money and their issue is insurance.

The Harbor district had mentioned they would be willing to dedicate an area for seasonal beach cat storage, as well as daily pass weekend access. They needed $1150 to cover the insurance nut which meant five yearly passes $230. Anything above that would go for improvement. We had someone willing to do something and many cat sailor pissed and moaned about have to spend the money for a year sticker, and these are the same ones that complained about how there is no beach access to beachcats!!!!!!!!

In place of trying to explain what a catamaran is start talking about revenue for them and the local business from the influx on the boaters. Your biggest fight is probably going to be insurance and policing the area - think personal injury lawyer! If you can show them how they can make money to offset any of their cost you're just about done. But remember, once they spend the money the will be watching it!!

Also, if you are affiliated with a Yacht Club, see if they want to get involved. With membership declining these days, they are certainly looking for ways to boost the ranks. Maybe have a Bla Bla Yacht Club Annex and piggyback on their insurance!!!! And there is persuasion in numbers.

Good luck, and shoot me a PM, I'll dig around for the proposal we submitted to the Ventura Port District if that will help.

John

I am very interested in this as well. I will need to go before the city council in N. Myrtle this fall to fight for continued access to the beach. No fines were issued this year but I have fear that next year will be the end if someone does not get involved. Let me know how to do this correctly!

I'm thinking you'd be well served by compiling a list of beach access points, videos of catamaran sailing and pointing out the possible revenue to be gained by catamaran activities.

In my case, the jury is out. 20 some years ago, when I tried this the first time, I lost! Resoundingly!

We shall see...

We launch and sail our F18 out of a ramp it is not something for novice sailors (or weak stomached) to take on. We have a typical motor boat ramp, steep and narrow (say 20 feet). The approach to the ramp is maybe 60 - 80 feet in width as well. Only light wind in the ramp area makes it easy (on occasion) just because of how sheltered it is. The only thing that makes this usable is that my skip is damn good at boat maneuvers and can stop the boat in less then its length, and still requires coordinating with the crew (me) on when to pull boards and rudders (and which ones).

I would kill for a beach! Because of this ramp we will never be able to host visiting cats, as I would never want to put someone else through this.

Why do we use it then do you ask? Not much choice around here, but man, great sailing!

Check out the club, you can see the ramp between the two "south east" most docks. Don't bother looking at the southern beach area south of the breakwater, not owned by the club ;-)

Map

Here's ours in West Maui. It's dead down wind and if you can't immediately get on a port tack you end up on the breakwater.

Coming in is even more thrilling. Trying to head up and back in while avoiding the para-sail boats and the twenty passenger RIBs is a real sphincter tightener.

Amazing. I thought I had it bad.

I'll look for the word doc later this afternoon - got a new computer and didn't transfer some of the old files.

It is a real easy process you just need patients! Here a are a few things to keep in mind:

1.) Get all the stakeholders together, that is all of those in your area that use or would benefit from using the beach for cat launching. Express to them the we need to do something NOW or we're going to lose this privilege. It is better to keep it now than let it close and come back open it later!

2.) Be empathetic to the person you're talking to from the government. Understand what they have to deal with, and in some case they have a boss to answer to. Ask them to articulate what they will need from you to make their job easy to accomplish this and be prepared to do the leg work. Again there is safety in numbers. Before leaving that meeting make an appointment for the next meeting while there!

3.) Talk to some of the local business that would benefit from you're being there and have them write something up. Sales = taxes and that ='s revenue. Or what would be the impact on their business if you weren't there!!!

4.) Talk to the life guards, police, harbor patrol to get their take on it and what their concerns are. This will likely come up and it is better to have this information to counter the objection.

5.) Like Pete said the more you can paint the picture that cat sailing is a good thing the better it is. In your case it may be easier as they already letting cats launch. As a note, I had taken pictures of Leadbetter Beach in Santa Barbara on one of the Chamber of Commerce days. To my fortune the person I dealt with was a visual learner and liked the idea of boats on the beach with the sails up and people all around.

6.) Maybe even offer to pay a launch fee if it is a yearly /daily thing. Find out what the local ramps are charging and use that as a baseline. Also run some calculations as to what they can expect a year in revenue. What I had proposed was 10 beach side seasonal storage spaces @ $230 = $2,300 per year. And average of 1 daily pass a weekend @ $10.00 = $520 per year. This was the minimum they could expect which was more than they thought!!!

Overall this is nothing, but then again it wasn't going to impact their budget.

7.) Finally, see if there are any other agencies that have a stake in this. State, County, Township, even the Federal Gov. Out here we have the California Coastal Commission, and they are something else with some strict laws regarding cars on beaches etc..... this can be a challenge and should be known up front. Remember the saying; we're from the government and we're hear to help!" This hold true with the local governments; that is, if they received funds from the state or the feds most certainly they will have some strings attached.

Good Luck

What about the Kihei Boat Ramp? There is some beach there and the wind looked like it favored using the docks when we were there in May!

That is what 20 minutes from the Lahaina?

Also saw an Inter 20 sitting on the beach outside the Grand Wailea when were there staying at the Four Seasons; what's up with that! And, saw Jennifer Anniston & Adam Sandler too! They were filming something at the Grand Wailea - what a circus!

Probably more like 45 minutes and that's if the tourists aren't loose or there hasn't been a wreck or fire on the highway linking us to the rest of the island. I'm working with the GM of the Royal Lahaina on Kaanapali's north beach for mast up storage. If it happens it'll be a great place to sail.

Sandler was here filming Just Go With It. It should be out early next year.

Kevin Nealon is in it also. He was on Saturday Night Live and also some show on cable called Weeds. Didn't even know who he was and didn't care either. Probably why we got along!

Had a few beers with him while I was waiting for my wife one evening before heading over to Big Mama's for dinner. Funny guy, with some interesting stories. He also rode with over to Lanai

Nealon?!?! You better hope he didn't use his Mr. Subliminal bit on your wife.

Hey Pete, We had the same problem over here in Palm Beach, we had a spot under the Singer Island that they tried to take away, they tried using the sea grass issue... anyway it took 2 years to get the spot back, we kept dealing with the county parks director.

Contact John JMcKnight76 at aol dot com, he worked with Dade County on this same issue.

We also pointed out that we would not be on the ramps in the way of the power boats, and our spot now says any non motorized under 20'.

The good thing was while our access was closed, that's when I started to find out about all the regatta's around the state.

Jerry

There are three spots off the top of my head that are easy enough to wheel your cat on to the beach here in my town, but the issue is there is no place to park your trailer once you get the boat off.

I bought a beach parking sticker for both my car and trailer, but the cops said "no-go" to using up two spaces. I'm not sure there is parking available for trailers within 3 miles of the walk-over spot for the boats...

Get an aluminum trailer that you can put on the roof of your car :P