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Inter 20 vs. F18 #219553
09/14/10 01:04 PM
09/14/10 01:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
We have raced (up and down) several times against a NACRA Inter 20 at different conditions and it appears that our Capricorn is superior upwinds but usually we are get beaten downwinds. Do we have to live with that? In a F18 field we usually doing very well downwinds.


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Inter 20 vs. F18 [Re: Baltic] #219596
09/14/10 10:36 PM
09/14/10 10:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
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flumpmaster  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
Originally Posted by Baltic
We have raced (up and down) several times against a NACRA Inter 20 at different conditions and it appears that our Capricorn is superior upwinds but usually we are get beaten downwinds. Do we have to live with that? In a F18 field we usually doing very well downwinds.

Typically in my neck of the woods (Texas) the I-20's get thrashed by the top F-18s both around the cans and distance racing (unless it gets really light).


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: Inter 20 vs. F18 [Re: flumpmaster] #219621
09/15/10 12:14 PM
09/15/10 12:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
But in all fairness Chris, in your neck of the woods the F18 drivers are fairly competent. Would you say the the same thing if the F18 and N20 teams switched boats?


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Inter 20 vs. F18 [Re: David Ingram] #219674
09/16/10 09:24 AM
09/16/10 09:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 129
Austin, TX
BoK Offline
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BoK  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 129
Austin, TX
Well there are some fairly incompetent F18 drivers in Texas that still do pretty well against the N20s. I happen to know one of those drivers intimately.


Bo Kersey
Corsair 31-1D 276
Re: Inter 20 vs. F18 [Re: Baltic] #219691
09/16/10 12:05 PM
09/16/10 12:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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TEAMVMG  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
Different boats have different strong/weak points.
You can only gauge your performance against other f18s


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Inter 20 vs. F18 [Re: TEAMVMG] #219822
09/17/10 07:31 PM
09/17/10 07:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
With a sail plan that hasn't evolved in 12 years, it is frustrating at times when the N20 have to give the F18 so much time on handicap.
I do like the extra two feet when it's rough though.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Inter 20 vs. F18 [Re: TeamChums] #219973
09/21/10 01:48 AM
09/21/10 01:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Originally Posted by TeamChums
With a sail plan that hasn't evolved in 12 years, it is frustrating at times when the N20 have to give the F18 so much time on handicap.
I do like the extra two feet when it's rough though.


The Texel rating for the F18s has changed this year from 101 to 100, so the development in the F18 class in the last years is reflected.


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: Inter 20 vs. F18 [Re: Baltic] #220067
09/22/10 05:11 AM
09/22/10 05:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline
old hand
waynemarlow  Offline
old hand
W

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
100 is still a pretty peachy handicap considering just how well developed the sail plan and hull shapes have become, something I guess the formulae for calculating the handicaps just can't take into account.

Re: Inter 20 vs. F18 [Re: TeamChums] #220261
09/25/10 02:37 AM
09/25/10 02:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1
Kiel / Germany
GER 145 Offline
stranger
GER 145  Offline
stranger

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1
Kiel / Germany
Originally Posted by TeamChums
With a sail plan that hasn't evolved in 12 years, it is frustrating at times when the N20 have to give the F18 so much time on handicap.


Iīm the guy who raced against baltic with a ī98 Inter 20. Buying new and modern shaped sails last year was a huge step forward for sailing performance. The most important differences compared to my 12 years old sails are:

1. The head of the mainsail has twice the width of the old sail (100cm / 50 cm). That gives a better control of twist and pressure.
2. Pentex cloth ist about 2 to 2 1/2 times stiffer than mylar cloth. That helps to keep the sailshape stable under wind load.
3. Extreme flat shape. With tight mast rotation it is possible to reduce the separation bubble behind the mast on the windward side almost to zero. Due to the flat sail shape drag and side forces are reduced. Where we were used to sail double trapezing in 12 knots upwind (crew weight about 185 kg) we now need maybe 15-17 knots to go really high upwind with both of us in trapeze with the new sails. I needed a long time to understand that fact. Our poor upwind performance against baltic was a result of pointing lower and lower (~55°) to gain pressure and keep one hull out of the water while double trapezing. The correct trim in the wind conditions we raced in is to have only the crew out on the wire. The helmsman has to sit on the hull, lean out in gusts an steer high upwind (~45°) without losing too much speed.

In light to medium wind conditions we did a good job on a long distance regatta this summer. Only three boats were faster (2 Tornado (YS 94), 1 Exploder 20 Carbon (YS 93)). After corrected time (Texel Yardstick 2010) we (YS 96) finished 7th out of 84 boats with 3 F18 teams (YS 100) in front of us (2 Wildcat, 1 Capricorn) and 19 behind us (8 Tiger, 1 Infusion, 3 Capricorn, 2 Hawk, 5 ?). For me it is the 3rd season of catamaran sailing overall and the first season of racing. The teams in front of us are very experienced teams with actual or former World/European/German Champions among them. This result shows that an Inter 20 with modern sails is not that bad against up to date F18 ships. Under strong wind conditions and/or up and down racing I think we hadnīt achieved such a nice result, but thatīs a matter of teamwork an experience an not a matter of lack of boat speed of an Inter 20.

Jan



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