| Re: Outback Cup- Columbia SC - Oct 2-3
[Re: mikekrantz]
#220849 10/05/10 08:16 AM 10/05/10 08:16 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | I like how everyone names there boat in our area. It makes for a great read - especially when you know the story behind a few of them...like "A-crusher" is a majorly rebuilt Boyer MKIV after it was thrown into a tree after a storm earlier this year. "Just Trash" is a (mostly) Hobie 18 with extended hulls, a Track14 rudder system, an extended mast, a Hobie Tiger main, and a Hobie 18 jib. It was put together from pieces parts left over and collected over time by Bill Hendrix and looks great.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Outback Cup- Columbia SC - Oct 2-3
[Re: Dlennard]
#220958 10/05/10 10:50 PM 10/05/10 10:50 PM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 471 NC drbinkle
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Posts: 471 NC | | | | Re: Outback Cup- Columbia SC - Oct 2-3
[Re: drbinkle]
#220970 10/06/10 07:17 AM 10/06/10 07:17 AM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | Not to take anything away from the Waves, but it's interesting that out of 18 total races (3 wave sailors X 6 races each) only two races had finishes worse than a 3rd. Those guys were sailing well, but they weren't unbeatable. How do we go about submitting these results to the Portsmouth rating gods? I rarely get to race against Waves and Getaways, but this always seems to be the outcome. Even though all of those races where in shifty, spotty wind...the kind you would not normally use for data, I would support sending the results just to level the field, so to speak. This is really perhaps another nail in the coffin of the PHRF system. Consider: 1. On the Waves, we were able to tack on the shifts and sail to the pressure, whereby the rest of the bigger cats in our fleet (mainly Hobie 16) have a hard time tacking at all, and have a hopeless situation in very light wind. I don't know how many times I simply sailed around one stuck in irons. 2. The three Wave sailers present are all national level sailors. 3. Except for Mark Williams, none of the other boats in our fleet came close to getting decent starts in most of the races. 4. The Wave DPN is most likely derived from data taken at small local races were someone that really sucked sailed a Wave and finished very poorely. I agree that the number doesn't fully represent the potential outcome. It would be interesting to score the same races using SCHRS. I expect the results would still stand. Ratings comparison: Hobie 16 DPN = 76 SCHRS = 1.145 converted to DPN = 79.3 Hobie 18 DPN = 71.4 SCHRS = 1.050 converted to DPN = 73.4 Wave DPN = 92.1 SCHRS = 1.480 converted to DPN = 102.5
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: Outback Cup- Columbia SC - Oct 2-3
[Re: Joanna]
#220975 10/06/10 07:59 AM 10/06/10 07:59 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Any photos? Sorry I had to miss it. Zander was photog again - I'm sure he'll have something posted soonish.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Outback Cup- Columbia SC - Oct 2-3
[Re: Mugrace72]
#220985 10/06/10 08:31 AM 10/06/10 08:31 AM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 471 NC drbinkle
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Posts: 471 NC | Even though all of those races where in shifty, spotty wind...the kind you would not normally use for data, I would support sending the results just to level the field, so to speak.
This is really perhaps another nail in the coffin of the PHRF system.
Consider:
1. On the Waves, we were able to tack on the shifts and sail to the pressure, whereby the rest of the bigger cats in our fleet (mainly Hobie 16) have a hard time tacking at all, and have a hopeless situation in very light wind. I don't know how many times I simply sailed around one stuck in irons.
2. The three Wave sailers present are all national level sailors.
3. Except for Mark Williams, none of the other boats in our fleet came close to getting decent starts in most of the races.
4. The Wave DPN is most likely derived from data taken at small local races were someone that really sucked sailed a Wave and finished very poorely.
I agree that the number doesn't fully represent the potential outcome. It would be interesting to score the same races using SCHRS. I expect the results would still stand.
Ratings comparison:
Hobie 16 DPN = 76 SCHRS = 1.145 converted to DPN = 79.3 Hobie 18 DPN = 71.4 SCHRS = 1.050 converted to DPN = 73.4 Wave DPN = 92.1 SCHRS = 1.480 converted to DPN = 102.5
Jack, those are all great points, however: 2. I've sailed against you before on a Hobie 16 I believe and Reggie on the Hobie 17 on what felt like a much more level playing field. 3. Mark continued to stay on the line with you guys at the starts, while I opted to sit back and take a clear lane after being pinned at the committee boat in the first race because the 16 definitely did not have the same manueverability as a Wave. I'm just trying to point out that if you leave out the DNF, the only time a Wave didn't finish 1,2,3 was in one race where it was 4th. | | | Re: Outback Cup- Columbia SC - Oct 2-3
[Re: drbinkle]
#221008 10/06/10 09:45 AM 10/06/10 09:45 AM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL |
I'm just trying to point out that if you leave out the DNF, the only time a Wave didn't finish 1,2,3 was in one race where it was 4th.
Derek, I would be the first to agree that the Wave potential is underated. However, it is what it is and I do respect your abilities. You have proven yourself many times. You will have to agree that this particular event was not a true test of boat speed. It was however, a demonstration of what can be done with a POS/kid's boat when taken seriously. We had hoped for more boats and a class of our own. We liked the event and Skip will spread the word within the Wave community. Our plan is to use this event as our fall championship next year. Is there a Wave in your future Derek?
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: Outback Cup- Columbia SC - Oct 2-3
[Re: Jake]
#221117 10/07/10 06:06 AM 10/07/10 06:06 AM |
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 263 SC zander
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Posts: 263 SC | Any photos? Sorry I had to miss it. Zander was photog again - I'm sure he'll have something posted soonish. Well since Jake brought it up...... www.chriszanderphotography.com Outback Cup 2010 gallery Sorry for the shameless plug.
Always borrow money from a pessimist. He won't expect it back.
| | | Re: Outback Cup- Columbia SC - Oct 2-3
[Re: drbinkle]
#221237 10/07/10 07:27 PM 10/07/10 07:27 PM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | Ha, I sailed a Wave after the Duck Cup this year and it was so ugly I earned a new nickname. Now I see a connection. You must be related to Megan #2 who works for Jon.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: Outback Cup- Columbia SC - Oct 2-3
[Re: zander]
#221239 10/07/10 07:29 PM 10/07/10 07:29 PM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL |
Outback Cup 2010 gallery
Sorry for the shameless plug.
Awesome job. I will try to pick a few and place an order. You actually made me look a lot younger.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: Outback Cup- Columbia SC - Oct 2-3
[Re: MarkW_F18]
#221279 10/08/10 11:47 AM 10/08/10 11:47 AM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | The Wave guys did sail well and I don't want to take anything away from them.... but it is unusual that you were consistently 1,2,3 in just about every race... when the wind conditions were very inconsistent. In that really light stuff, you were favored just with the fact that no one was moving well and couldn't create any separation for the numbers to equalize the times...
I will say this about the numbers.. I sail a F18(62.4) and a H16(76)(13.6 difference) and there is less disparity between these two Portsmouth #s than the separation of H16 and Wave(92.1)(16 difference)... I've got to say there should be a bigger separation between the F18 and H16 than with the H16 and Wave. Mark, I agree that in those conditions we certainly had a rating advantage. We (Waves) were as surprised as you at the results. We didn't even know we were being scored with you guys until Saturday when they posted the standings. I think with more and steady winds, the results would have been in more in your favor. As I pointed out above, we were so much more manueverable that we could tack on shifts and sail to pressure, while you guys were pretty much stuck on the tack you were on. How many times did I sail by you whilst you were stuck in irons? I hate handicap racing, as do most of us, but I guess we are stuck with it when we don't bring numbers. The interesting thing is that under SCHRS, the Wave rates even better!
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | |
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