Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 7 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Re: Where are 18HT's? Bill Vinning are you out there???? [Re: Commodore_CCC] #222978
10/29/10 11:03 PM
10/29/10 11:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
E
EdB Offline
stranger
EdB  Offline
stranger
E

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
In regards to the 18 sq thought I may go all the way with the proper size main. There's no 18 sq class racing so the spinnaker is added and accounted for with handicap #. I race mostly single handed and would like to have wider beams for stability. Carbon would be awesome but I can't imagine the cost. Any of you guys have a set sitting around?


Ed Baldwin
Central OH
Bimare 18HT #4
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Where are 18HT's? Bill Vinning are you out there???? [Re: PTP] #222980
10/29/10 11:36 PM
10/29/10 11:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
E
EdB Offline
stranger
EdB  Offline
stranger
E

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
18 HT Sail Area. The guy I bought mine off of thought there may have been several different sizes of main sails in the US. Stock USA boats may have had smaller mains than over seas boats. Anybody ever heard that. He didn't know for sure but thought he had heard something like that. Anybody know of a sail measuring formula online?


Ed Baldwin
Central OH
Bimare 18HT #4
Re: Where are 18HT's? Bill Vinning are you out there???? [Re: EdB] #222983
10/30/10 05:07 AM
10/30/10 05:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 266
UK
Cheshirecatman Offline
enthusiast
Cheshirecatman  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 266
UK
Originally Posted by EdB
Anybody know of a sail measuring formula online?


Have a look at the SCHRS website SCHRS.com

Re: Where are 18HT's? Bill Vinning are you out there???? [Re: EdB] #222988
10/30/10 08:13 AM
10/30/10 08:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 117
C
Commodore_CCC Offline
member
Commodore_CCC  Offline
member
C

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 117
Well let's run some numbers.

Provided you spend the FOUR figures to have the custom sail made, we'll assume you build an 18 Square class legal sail. Since the HT is certainly less than 330lb, you would be Category 1. Your base rating is:
64.2

Add a spinnaker, you get knocked: .960, so the base formula is:

64.2 x .960 =
61.6 DP-N base rating.


I guess you gain a little, as the base rating for the 18HT (if you have crew) is:
Formula 18HT Uni spi 2up F18HT 60.0

If you singlehand the above, my usual hit is the 70% mod: .974 (this varies wildly depending on where you are.)

So the rating provided you keep the boat stock and singlehand it
60.0 x .974 = 58.4

BUT...
In order to be fair and legal, you will need to have the 18HT sail either cut radically or custom made to 18 Square measurement. I would expect that most sailmakers will just tell you to have one made instead of cutting what you might have, which a new well-made sail is around 2 grand last time I bought one.

For what you're contemplating doing here, you'd be better off financially just buying a Square, since modding the HT will devalue it, and you'll have spent a lot of time and money doing the mods.

Re: Where are 18HT's? Bill Vinning are you out there???? [Re: Commodore_CCC] #222995
10/30/10 10:39 AM
10/30/10 10:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
E
EdB Offline
stranger
EdB  Offline
stranger
E

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
Thanks for doing the hdc numbers! I've been meaning to do that. The other way I could go is sticking with the HT and widening it like others have done. I'll have to check those numbers as well.

I singlehand most of the time and class racing in our area is pretty much non existing for any boat, unfortunatly. I can keep my boat on a local lake shore 5 minutes from my front door and will travel to a few races at lake Erie if time permits. (2 grade schoolers, wife, long hours at work etc etc)

I sold my Nacra 18 square last winter. The old ones are heavy! I could have invested a chunk into that boat and still had a 1992 aluminum masted heavy boat. Now for less than $5 G's I have a very light, stiff carbon masted modern boat that's very fast in all conditions and a trailer. I think 1 dagger board on the Nacra weighed as much as 2 daggers and 2 rudder blades on the HT.

What Im really after is a very stable boat in heavy air. Lite weight to drag up the shore and still competative in regards to hdc ratings. Tha nacra 18 sq was very stable...

The sail - if I stick with widening only, I stay with the existing main. Sooner or later I'll need a new main and I can decide then if it should be an 18 sq or HT.

De-value? since the fleet is not hot and heavy I think that work has been done prior to me buying the boat. first they were sold at a lesser price when brought in for the Worrel. When I was looking at this boat there were 4 others available. 2 were in the same price range, 1 was cheaper. 1 was $8 G's, sailed 3 times, no trailer, no extras but perfect condition. It's been for sale for 2 years or so at this point. Most had extras, maybe sails, cattrax, boards etc. To me this is a pretty good price for a carbon masted, lite weight modern boat. Especially in the condition I found them to be in.

I will still keep the stock set up if I modify so in reality I would have 2 boats to a prospective buyer!

Time & Money doing the mods.
It's late fall in Ohio, soon to be winter. I have plenty of time. Im in the landscape business. The boat is in the basement and I don't have to share the space. Plenty of tools including Industrial sewing machine.... so let the fun begin.

Money - I priced aluminum beams locally, afordable. Carbon doubtful but we will see. New tramp - I'll build it myself buying material on line etc. We have a god guy in town who can do new stays and wires if necessary. I found a used Harken track on ebay for $20.

So It will be a fun winter
Great conversation though!
Im glad to see this much interest in the boat. Many people seem to like the boat and concept.
I would like to see an 18HT regatta somewhere. How about 18HT Florida Midwinter's - Pensacola??? Stock boat, 2 Up!!!! I could find crew for that.

Thanks for your input as well!


Ed Baldwin
Central OH
Bimare 18HT #4
Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: samc99us] #223040
11/01/10 08:38 AM
11/01/10 08:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
veteran
bvining  Offline
veteran

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
The laces in the sides of the tramps are for us old guys to put our feet in to "step" out onto the trapeze.

Re: Where are 18HT's? Bill Vinning are you out there???? [Re: Commodore_CCC] #223043
11/01/10 09:07 AM
11/01/10 09:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
veteran
bvining  Offline
veteran

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
Couple of comments.
Heavy Air
I sailed my HT this summer in some really heavy winds, 25-30knts, on a protected inlet on Cape Cod. Flat water, and I never took the spin out of the snuffer. It was one of the most fun moments I've had with this boat. I let the traveler all the way out, and was sailing on a deep reach, doing the wild thing like the Acat's do downwind, with all the controls on the main “off” – ie no downhaul, rotator all the way out, outhaul eased. It was as fun as flying the spin, but less complicated and the boat really flew, it was a lot like the way the Acat will go downwind on a hot downwind angle. If you are just interested in going out sailing in heavy air, this setting is a lot of fun.
Upwind in heavy air, put every mast/main control on full “on” setting. Ie, pull the downhaul and main sheet as hard as you can (do this either together or do some sheet and then some downhaul, but don’t do one all the way and then the other.) I have a replacement Kevlar Main that Peter Cogan made me and I can turn the main into a board and upwind in heavy air is very manageable, and very fast, as long as you can get the main very flat. If your main is old and stretched out, you might not be able to get all the curve out of the main and you won’t approach this sail setting. The mast will do this nicely if the sail is cut right and you apply enough downhaul. I think this one of the boats strongest features. I have a 16/1 downhaul and I can really hammer on it.
Widening – and devaluing.
If you keep the standard beams and tramp when you widen the HT to either make it more manageable or make it a 18sq, I don’t think you’ve devalued it at all. You now have two boats for the price of one, and since there is zero class racing for the HT, who cares anyways? If we do get back together as a class, I would propose 8’6” wide for US HT’s as a max.
Altering the main
I wouldn’t alter a 20 sq HT main to make a 18sq main, unless the HT main is trashed, and then you could experiment with hot knifing it down by 2sq, but you’ll probably want a sailmaker’s input. I would go have a new 18sq main made, if you are serious about 18sq racing, you’ll need a 18sq main made for the HT mast, which has very good bend/flattening controls. A new 18sq main would be well worth the investment, AND it would/could be a heavy air sail.


Re: Where are 18HT's? Bill Vinning are you out there???? [Re: bvining] #223093
11/01/10 09:03 PM
11/01/10 09:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
old hand
davefarmer  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
Thanks Bill!!! Would Peter be open to building more sails like yours? Other sailmakers with experience with this mast? Are you recommending a max beam of 8' 6"? Much as I'd like to go wider, I do get nervous downwind in big air, even with crew as far aft as possible. And I agree that in serious breeze the boat is mighty quick with main alone. Do you have a pic of your tramp?
Ed, what was the price quote for the wider beams in alum?
Thanks men, for getting me enthused about this boat again!

Dave

Last edited by davefarmer; 11/01/10 09:05 PM. Reason: grammer
Re: Where are 18HT's? Bill Vinning are you out there???? [Re: davefarmer] #223103
11/02/10 08:02 AM
11/02/10 08:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
veteran
bvining  Offline
veteran

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
I will send Peter a note and see if he would be willing to make more mains. He reads this forum, maybe he will pm you.

I think 8'6" is right for the HT, I will post a picture of the tramp but its going to take me a couple of weeks before I can get to the boat. If you see pictures of an Acat tramp with the sides laced to tramp slugs, thats the same idea.


Re: Where are 18HT's? Bill Vinning are you out there???? [Re: davefarmer] #223219
11/03/10 12:35 PM
11/03/10 12:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
E
EdB Offline
stranger
EdB  Offline
stranger
E

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
Dave, Just got your rudder photos. Simple & cool.
Does that APS cleat work well?
I'll get the beam prices for you next week. Too busy right now.
Thanks!


Ed Baldwin
Central OH
Bimare 18HT #4
Re: Where are 18HT's? Bill Vinning are you out there???? [Re: EdB] #223273
11/04/10 12:05 AM
11/04/10 12:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
old hand
davefarmer  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
Can't say actually, I've never hit anything with the rudders. I think it'd work fine, and I think I patterned the set up on pics of other HTs.

Dave

Re: Where are 18HT's? Bill Vinning are you out there???? [Re: davefarmer] #223274
11/04/10 03:12 AM
11/04/10 03:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
veteran
bvining  Offline
veteran

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
My rudders pop up fine, I run over stuff all the time, mostly sandbars coming into the beach.

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: scooby_simon] #223470
11/06/10 09:41 PM
11/06/10 09:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8
indy
W
wayler Offline
stranger
wayler  Offline
stranger
W

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8
indy
i agree am considering redoing my HT18 just purchased, have barely sailed it yet, season over here in Indiana virtually, has anyone gone through the process? not sure why some cats are no made with extendable beams so can trailer at8'6" and extended with 4 quick bolt adjustments , would obviosly be slightly heavier than one piece cross beams but for fast stable and trailerable a great solution

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: wayler] #223473
11/07/10 12:26 AM
11/07/10 12:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
The old Hobie 21's had the extendable beams, but after a few years in salt water the corrosion/salt/sand usually made the slide-abilty quite dificult if not useless. As I recall, they were quite heavy as well, but cat building has come a long way since then.


Blade F16
#777
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: wayler] #223486
11/07/10 11:19 AM
11/07/10 11:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline
old hand

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Origional Supercat 20 beams are extendable. You still have to redo the tramp


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: cyberspeed] #223490
11/07/10 12:03 PM
11/07/10 12:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
old hand
davefarmer  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
Yeah, I thought the SC20 system worked pretty well(freshwater), but lacing up the tramp was time consuming. Seems like it took over 2 hours to rig with 2 guys who knew the drill, although that included a fwd beam and spin set up. I never felt the added weight was an issue on a 20' boat, and with new shims in place there wasn't much slop/flexing.

Dave

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: davefarmer] #223656
11/09/10 01:53 AM
11/09/10 01:53 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline OP
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline OP
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Live on, old thread, live on!


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: ejpoulsen] #223834
11/10/10 02:53 PM
11/10/10 02:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
M
MalteM Offline
stranger
MalteM  Offline
stranger
M

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
Can somebody post pictures of how to raise the rear beam without doing major mods to the hull?

I own USA-32 which I used to sail a lot in Santa Barbara, CA (mostly 1-up). Wish I had raised beams back then, the waves were hitting the rear beam constantly.


Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: MalteM] #223847
11/10/10 05:33 PM
11/10/10 05:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
You don't have to do any mode to the hulls. Get some aluminum tube from somewhere... thicker than regular beams. Cut off a length, flip over, have someone weld it. Gains 4 inches. I layered some structural filler since the id and od didn't match up.

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: MalteM] #223874
11/11/10 12:18 AM
11/11/10 12:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
old hand
davefarmer  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
PM me, I may have the pics.

Dave

Page 7 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 198 guests, and 111 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,405
Posts267,056
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1