What should one do during a race if you see the boat ahead of you hit a mark though they clearly didn't see themselves hitting the mark (and couldn't, given the way they were facing).

Depends on the race you're in:

• Last race of the World or a qualifying event for it: protest
• Your neighborhood sailing club Wednesday race: Use your talents to repeat the story as many times as possible, with as many flourishes as possible, all in the goal to get more beers your way
• Anything in between: Go tell the sailor about it, so he knows and won't do it next time

pepin,
thanks for the reply. If you tell the competitor this after the race shouldn't they, in theory, DSQ themselves? Once again this likely depends on the level of event as you mentioned.

Good reply Pepin. It all depends on whether it really matters in the scoring department. Did the boat finish first or last? Does the resultant penalty change the outcome? I agree with telling the skipper regardless, protest is a different story

Every club seems to have at least one bar lawyer who will protest the slightest infringement - and you know how popular that person can be!!!
Good answers above ^, if it's just club racing a chat afterward does no harm - BUT, if it becomes a regular thing and that person is using the friendly approach to their advantage then they have to be protested to stop the rot. (We've had exactly that situation in our club a few years back where one particular person seemed to decide that rules needn't necessarily apply in club races and it came to a head with one apparently deliberate port/starboard that could have ended badly.....). It's a difficult one to call, but if it's within your own club then you usually know the character of the participants.

Agreed, if it is repeated and not soerted out you can end up with whole fleets deciding that the rules do not really apply to boats that are not in our race. Don't ask me how I know.....

Call 'em out on it on the water. We are a self policing sport, so we should police ourselves. We get pissed off at Congress for not following the rules and policing themsleves, we get angry at the cops for pulling us over for a seatbelt violation when people are speeding around us and the cop ain't wearing a belt, and we get upset with our local elected officals go against the grain.
You don't need to ba an a-hole about it, but if the guy ignores you, well, you now know more about them then you both wished you did as far as integrity goes.

+1

The touch would have to be very obvious. In my seminars I teach the monohulls to come so close the bow wave pushes the mark away from them. It is the old "enter wide, exit close" theory that pays off big time at leeward mark roundings.
To a boat following even several boats away might miscontrue this as touching the mark.
At a club race in Sunfish a jerk was half way down the downwind leg and protested me for hitting the leeward mark. No way he could see it, even if I did.

During a race: Call out "Protest - you hit the mark". This gives the boat the opportunity to exonerate herself by taking a penalty turn. There's no reason to wait. The fact that they were facing the wrong way is irrelevant. A boat is responsible for keeping a good lookout, and that includes watching objects she may hit.

Why is everybody so squeamish about protesting? I understand that nobody wants to wind up in the room, but we are all responsible for following and enforcing the rules. Hailing protest:

1. is not an accusation of cheating. It is more a statement like "hey, you can't do that". You wouldn't hesitate to point out an error in any other game, would you?
2. is not unsportsmanlike. Much like ultimate frisbee, the competitors are the sport's referees. Not only are we empowered to make the call, we are expected to. That doesn't make one a "sea lawyer".

Here's my take on penalties. When I break a rule, I promptly take a penalty (whether or not anybody sees me). When I see someone else break a rule, I hail protest and expect them to take a penalty. There's no malice involved.

Regards,
Eric

rick- I was less than a boat length behind.
If I don't call protest immediately, is the offending sailor obligated to do anything if I call them out on it after the race? I imagine not I suppose since at that point, their only option is dsq themselves which is obviously worse than doing a turn.

And remember that you have to use the word 'Protest',

not just, hey, you hit the mark do a turn. That is not a valid protest.

Either say it then, or blow it off.

I agree with the fact they weren't looking is no excuse. They should be very aware if they did, or did not hit the mark.

I've seen many people, that leave there sticks out and the stick only hits the mark. Guess what, that's hitting the mark just the same.

Wow, LOTS going on here!

One thing that hasn't specifically been mentioned above is the impact of a circle in a large fleet. If you're racing in an 8-boat fleet, a circle probably won't hurt much unless the offendor is in front of most of the fleet, and they're tightly packed. If the offendor blows it in front of a 30-boat or larger fleet, particularly at the first weather mark, he could easily lose a dozen boats in a highly competitive fleet. This may factor in to whether you decide to protest.

Having raced long enough, been to enough seminars, served on enough mark boats, as PRO, and on PCs (where these exact protests have come up time and again), here's what I've come away with over the years...

Generally speaking in terms of etiquette, it's been well said above. All things being equal, it's always better to spend your time in the bar than the room, especially over touching a mark.

As Rick mentioned, distance and angle are HUGE factors. We are trained by the IROs and IJs to ignore these things 99.999% of the time if witnessed by a mark boat. Unless you have the most amazing angle ever, AND there are no sailors around to protest, it didn't happen. Period.

If those two high standards are met to the PRO's satisfaction, the next step is for the PRO to approach the sailor, explain the situation and ask him to retire. Again, it would never get this far with a good PRO, unless the PRO knows he has to do it (no competitors were witnesses) AND has a rock-solid case, a combination which is actually pretty rare.

The reason I mention the RC point of view first is simple. For most sane people, the same logic should be applied as a fellow competitor. First, were you at the appropriate angle and distance to KNOW the mark was touched? If so, you're close enough to hail protest, and must do so per the RRS, as mentioned by others above.

If the guy doesn't spin, then you have the option to follow up with the protest, or let it go, also as mentioned by others above.

Personally, unless I see the mark get "dimpled" and spun, I wouldn't feel comfortable protesting, whether as a sailor or RC. When on PC, I wait to hear these things specifically described before ruling as DSQ.

Hope this helps.

Mike

Lets make some small changes and see if you all feel the same way.
The crew/skipper are looking at the mark and they hit it(ever so lightly) and do not do turns.
Still feel the same?
Now add
They are leading thier fleet and you observe. You are not in thier fleet.
Now how do you feel about it?
And if your thought changes why?

I don't see what fleet size or level of competetion has to do with anything here. Since when do we get to pick when and which rules to follow? A race that might not mean much to you could very well mean a whole lot to someone else.

In any case, if you clearly see someone hit a mark you should say "protest".

sm

I had this happen at a junior event this past summer. A guy hit the mark, didn't do his turn, I got a call from the mark boat saying they got it on video. Approached the competitor at the end of the day and after less than 5 minutes of discussion about "the right thing to do", he RAF'd.

Mike's right though. 99% of the time, unless the mark is assaulted by the competitor, you're not in a good position to see it. Especially if the "touch" is a graze.

An excellent point.

Look, no one is holding a gun to your head one way or another. By the book, we all should protest everything because of fair sailing. In reality, sailing is a social event, and in the "big picture" (on and off the water) lots can be won or lost here (on all sides).

When I am sailing, if I hit a mark, I spin (yes, I've done it, even with no one else around to see it). No one needs to protest me. I am always looking at the mark, and if I'm not because of traffic or whatever, if someone tells me that I hit it, and if I was close enough to be in doubt, I'm most likely going to believe him and spin (I've done this too).

The respect of my competitors means more to me than a position in a race. I wish more people felt that way, and believe me, the trend seems to be getting worse at youth events (think monohulls here), especially with coaches.

EDIT: I think this should answer Orphan's questions as well.

Mike

I am all in, but in the original post it was stated that the sailor did not know that the boat touched the mark. This is key: The expectation of the behavior of the skipper will be different if he knows that he hit the mark vs not knowing.

Thus, a sidebar chide might be in order. "hey Bro, did you know that you hit A mark in the last leg of the 3rd race, you now owe me a beer to exonerate your self"

In large, closely sailed fleets, a one-turn or two-turn penalty can put a boat out of the race. In such events, the sailing instructions should specify the use of the "Scoring Penalty" (see RRS 44.3) instead. Personally, I don't think the magnitude of the penalty should be the determining factor when deciding whether or not to protest.


It's better to exonerate yourself on the water than spend your time in a protest hearing.


I disagree. I refer you to the Basic Principle of Sportsmanship and the Rules, which states: "competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules that they are expected to follow and enforce". Although Race Committee is permitted to protest a boat, it is not their duty. It is the competitors' responsibility to enforce the rules - and they are expected to do so. Therefore, basis for deciding whether or not to protest should be different.

Regards,
Eric

This is precisely why you should hail "protest" at the time of the incident. That lets the boat know that you saw them hit the mark and gives them an opportunity to exonerate themselves while racing. That is a much better result than either RAF or rancor in the bar.

Sincerely,
Eric