| Re: Rule question/etiquette
[Re: PTP]
#224444 11/19/10 06:01 PM 11/19/10 06:01 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
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Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | If I don't call protest immediately, is the offending sailor obligated to do anything if I call them out on it after the race? Ethically? Yes. It's called RAF (Retired After Finishing). Under the rules? No, not unless there was obvious damage or injury. Regards, Eric | | | Re: Rule question/etiquette
[Re: PTP]
#224448 11/19/10 07:24 PM 11/19/10 07:24 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | Hell, in a local club race, If I get fouled, and they ask if I want them to do a turn, I almost always so no, unless it really screws me over.
Nationals on the other hand, I'll call it, and expect the same in return.
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: Rule question/etiquette
[Re: PTP]
#224463 11/20/10 08:46 AM 11/20/10 08:46 AM |
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 112 hoofhearted
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Posts: 112 | In this case, the PRO can't do anything because there is no protest, and the incident was not seen by the race officals.
We, the sailors, police our sport, we should do so. The committee is not responisble for following up the rule violaitons seen or said from other boats. It is the competitors responsability.
We as a group of sailors should all follow the same rules and enforce them regardless of boat class, fleet size, or event type. It will put us all on the same page, and teach us all more about the rules. Even if mistakes are made. Deborah and I sail in both monohulls and multi's. The Multi group is far more lax on the rules than the mono groups. It is talked about in various circles in the mono groups on how lax the multis are and sometimes spoken as unknowledgable of the rules. This is seen as a negative aspect of multihull sailing, and needs room for improvement to attract more people to "the dark side"
By the way, I can spell, I just type like I run my mouth: No backups and no edits. | | | Re: Rule question/etiquette
[Re: brucat]
#224537 11/22/10 03:16 PM 11/22/10 03:16 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
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Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | Mike, Ok, I won't quote you line by line. The context of the original question, however, is "What should one do during a race if you see the boat ahead of you hit a mark...". I approach rule questions as hypothetical scenerios where the facts are as stated. I take it at face value that the mark was indeed hit. My analysis does not depend on the confidence level of those facts. Now, the action a competitor should take is different than the action race committee should take in two ways. - During a race, a competitor who plans to protest must fulfill the requirements of rule 61.1(a), which include hailing "Protest" and displaying a red flag (exceptions apply). Race committee must comply with rule 61.1(b), which includes informing the boat after the race.
- The decision whether or not to protest is also quite different. Competitors are "expected to enforce" the rules. RC is not. The sailors have a greater responsibility and should therefore be more inclined to protest than RC.
Drawing an analogy between RC protests and competitor protests is not really valid here, as the roles of the parties are quite different. Being sure of your facts, and presenting them in a compelling way is good advice for everybody in a protest hearing, but not really germaine to this question. Regards, Eric | | | Re: Rule question/etiquette
[Re: Isotope235]
#224543 11/22/10 06:41 PM 11/22/10 06:41 PM |
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,969 brucat
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Posts: 3,969 | Hi Eric,
I also saw "etiquette" in the title, which makes me (and others) think there was more to the question, but that's another story.
Anyway, we're basically on the same page, but you have to let the RC thing go, because you're still reading WAY more into this than what I'm actually saying.
The only reason I mentioned the RC was because, in my opinion, unless a sailor is as sure as the RC example I gave that a mark was hit, he shouldn't waste his time with the flag or hearing. I'm not comparing a sailor's obligations to initiate a hearing to that of the RC, just giving the example of what constitutes really knowing that the mark was hit.
If a sailor is sure the mark was hit, he needs to hail protest (immediately), or it never happened.
Mike | | | Re: Rule question/etiquette
[Re: alsail]
#224683 11/28/10 06:45 PM 11/28/10 06:45 PM |
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 263 SC zander
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Posts: 263 SC | One thing I have not see mentioned here and in the spirit of the original question "What should you do.........?"
There was an ongoing discussion around our local club about protests and such in club and fleet racing. I agree that it is better to spend time at the bar but we are forgetting newcomers to our sport (the few that there may be). Hank Goodman brought up a great point. The protest process is an excellent teaching tool. It keeps us all sharp on the rules and as long as it is not a hostile environment it is a very positive process that helps everyone learn, teach, and enjoy the sport. When I began sailing cats I was very fortunate to have people around me that would explain the mistakes I made in a real effort to better MY skill and not their own egos. I don't think this is always the case. But it should be.
Always borrow money from a pessimist. He won't expect it back.
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