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Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths #225665
12/19/10 05:52 PM
12/19/10 05:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline OP
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David Parker  Offline OP
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
Searching the Wave Forum, I see that the question of stay lengths has been asked several times but with no definitive answer. Rick has mentioned repeatedly that the lengths seems to vary from boat to boat and a loose rig is best anyway.

I found a website that lists lengths for all Hobie's. Standard Shroud Lengths for Hobies
For all Waves the bridles are 5 feet and the and forestay is 10 feet However, there are TWO lengths listed for sidestays depending on whether you have a Classic or a Club with 4 3/4 inches difference! This might explain why some people who bought used boats have complained that their rigging is loose. Perhaps they or some previous owner bought the wrong ones.
Classic (with hook) 14' 3 1/2"
Club (two thimbles) 13' 10 3/4"

My new-to-me Wave (Club '98) has a R-E-A-L-L-Y floppy rig. The mast (H-14 style base) cants at least 6 inches off vertical with all chainplates at their tightest settings. My bridles and forestay are correct but my sidestays are 14' 1/2", right between the two given above. My bridles are shackled to the bow tangs instead of directly through the eyepads so those add an extra inch as well. I'll take those shackles out but I think I need shorter sidestays for sure!

Could someone please post a measurement for their sidestays? I will make new ones tomorrow and need something real to go on.

Maybe it's my old style mast that's messing me up. Matt, got any ideas?

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Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: David Parker] #225718
12/20/10 12:03 PM
12/20/10 12:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
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mmiller  Offline
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The difference between Classic and Club shrouds is that the club version uses a 7 hole adjuster... the Classic includes a hook that goes right to the chainplate (so it is longer).


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: mmiller] #225727
12/20/10 05:16 PM
12/20/10 05:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline OP
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David Parker  Offline OP
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
Thanks Matt. That makes sense. However, even though all my standing rigging is Hobie-made (double swage and vinyl covered), it is way too long. It measures out as 14 and one half inch, about one and three quarters inches longer than it should be. Add the extra shackles at the bow and my rig is so floppy the mast would jump out in a capsize.

In a bind for time, I cut a thimble off of each side stay and put on a new one with a single swage, removing as little legnth as possible. Now they are 13' 8" which is 3 inches too short (officially). I should have PLENTY of rake but maybe now it will be tight enough hold the mast upright.

I'll order a complete new set of rigging after Christmas but I HAD to have it ready to rig for Christmas morning. I'm going to rig it and launch it in my pool with a big bow as a present for my son (and me), assuming I can get it rolled into the back yard at 3am on Christmas morning and step the mast without waking him.

Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: David Parker] #225733
12/20/10 06:58 PM
12/20/10 06:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
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mmiller  Offline
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The shackles in the bridles plus the longer shrouds would be pretty loose. Likely the 3" short measurement on the shrouds is not a problem. That would help with the longer bridle for sure.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: David Parker] #225770
12/21/10 02:03 PM
12/21/10 02:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

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Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
David,
We all run our rigs loose -- to the point you can grab the sidestay, twist is and will go to about a 30-degree angle to horizontal.
This is a pretty fast set up. Also, most of us use a 10-hole forestay adjuster. I take my sidestay adjusters off, and use Wichard locking shackles and still have a pretty loose rig.
This loads up the rudders as daggerboards and puts more effort over the skigs. The loosesness helps downwind as the rig goes forward.
Problem with the old style mast bases is they will pop off when capsized. Most refit with the taller, new one.
If you are in the Tampa area, get hold of Stan Woodruff, who lives in Ruskin and has a nice beach to sail off in Tampa Bay. He has 6 or 7 Waves and tries to hold beeer can races often, and hosts an Invitational Regatta every spring. He is very good at rigging the Wave and would be a big help. His phone is 813-309-3297


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: RickWhite] #225810
12/22/10 10:48 AM
12/22/10 10:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline OP
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David Parker  Offline OP
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
Quote
Problem with the old style mast bases is they will pop off when capsized. Most refit with the taller, new one.


Yes, that is my concern, especially with my very loose rig. I see in the Wave parts list that the new mast step is made up of a number of numbered items
-casting on beam
-post
-ball
-pin
-mast foot

Does this upgrade come as a single kit? Rick, do you sell these parts in our OnLine Store? If not, what online source would you recommend to get the whole mess?

With the new ball-type mast step, do you sail with the pin in place, captive-ball style, like the SuperCat?

With the new ball-type mast step, do you raise the mast with the mast fore-and-aft or rotated 90 degrees?

Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: David Parker] #225813
12/22/10 11:52 AM
12/22/10 11:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Alachua, FL
Dave,

All you need to do is run the tail of the main halyard under the front beam and back to the cleat on the mast. It should be loose enough so the mast rotates and not so loose that the mast can be lifted out of the base.

No need to change styles.

I always do this, even with the new style ever since I lifted my mast off trying to over tighten the downhaul. smirk



Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: David Parker] #225814
12/22/10 12:04 PM
12/22/10 12:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
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mmiller  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by David Parker

-casting on beam
-post
-ball
-pin
-mast foot

Does this upgrade come as a single kit?


No.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: mmiller] #225825
12/22/10 03:20 PM
12/22/10 03:20 PM

X
xanderwess
Unregistered
xanderwess
Unregistered
X



Jack is right. We do that with the 14s too. LOOOSE as heck rig, and tie it up to the dolphin striker or beam with the halyard.
I hear that the old style 14/16 mast base is better on the wave anyway since it can control mast rotation, where the ball thingy fully rotates. Just what I hear.

Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: ] #225827
12/22/10 04:01 PM
12/22/10 04:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline OP
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David Parker  Offline OP
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
Great tip about tying the mast on with an existing line. Easy solution.
Jack, are you using the old mast base?

My H14 style mast hinge does not work well. The axle hole for the hinge plate is too low and the hinge hits the casting as it swings up when the mast goes vertical. Comparing five different H16s parked near my Wave I see that the axle hole varies up and down 1/4 inch between them. Two of the five looke like mine and jambed. The other 3 were drilled a bit higher and folded nicely. Any fix for this besides spending $100+ on a new mast step? I guess this is best asked on a H14 forum.

If I had a teflon chip in there it would rotate better, too!

Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: David Parker] #225828
12/22/10 04:43 PM
12/22/10 04:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by David Parker
Great tip about tying the mast on with an existing line. Easy solution.
Jack, are you using the old mast base?

My H14 style mast hinge does not work well. If I had a teflon chip in there it would rotate better, too!


Firstly Dave: You don't need a pin or a hinge. The Wave mast is so light you can just grab it a little higher than the middle, set the butt on the ground between the hulls and lift it into the base. It is easy with one person and a slam dunk with two. If you are by yourself you need some sort of temp line to hold the mast forward against the shrouds, of course, while you pin the forestay.

A quarter or soda cap both work great instead of the teflon chip.

I have the new style but don't think one is better than the other.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: ] #225829
12/22/10 04:48 PM
12/22/10 04:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by xanderwess
Jack is right.
I hear that the old style 14/16 mast base is better on the wave anyway since it can control mast rotation, where the ball thingy fully rotates. Just what I hear.


You can actually control rotation with the halyard tail if you think it is an issue.

Personally, I like to let it go where it wants to without any conrol....but who am I to say? cool


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: Mugrace72] #225833
12/22/10 05:44 PM
12/22/10 05:44 PM

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xanderwess
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xanderwess
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I always use a quarter, but have used wiffle ball golf balls cut in half too. They work fine and super cheap.

I talked to a guy out west who was racing an older wave (95 or 96 with the old style base) and he was kicking the crap out of the brand new boats upwind and he swears it's becasue his mast didn't overrotate when sheeted down hard.
I got beat by my son upwind too when he was on an older boat with a new sail (mine is new too and my boat is a 2000) and he thought the same thing, that he had better sail shape and the boats were set up exactly the same (as I did it)
Anyway, have a good Xmas

Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: ] #225862
12/23/10 08:59 PM
12/23/10 08:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Albenarle NC
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jackbr549 Offline
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Albenarle NC
I have had both types and the old sails as good as the new.
I cut the stop off the part on the cross bar on the 14 type and with a loose rig d-mast at the Outer Banks race after I turned over in very big wind. If you are going to cut the stop out take the metal off the mast base. This will keep the mast from kicking out when the boat is over with a loose rig. Got the new type when I went to fix the problem. Don't think it will come out unless your on your side.When you step it just lay the chain plate on the tramp keeping the wiers in front of the ball and pick it up when you get the mast up.
Good Luck!!

Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: Mugrace72] #225995
12/28/10 05:14 PM
12/28/10 05:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline OP
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David Parker  Offline OP
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
Quote
A quarter or soda cap both work great instead of the teflon chip.



A quarter, really? The metal coin is slippery enough? Does a quarter deform under the weight of the mast or stay flat?

Does it matter which state quarter? Is one state faster than another? cool

Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: David Parker] #225996
12/28/10 06:04 PM
12/28/10 06:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by David Parker
A quarter, really? The metal coin is slippery enough? Does a quarter deform under the weight of the mast or stay flat?

Does it matter which state quarter? Is one state faster than another? cool


The quarter will deform and take the shape of the socket. It will lose it's identity however.

I used an SBA dollar one time.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: Mugrace72] #225997
12/28/10 06:15 PM
12/28/10 06:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline OP
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David Parker  Offline OP
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
Quote
The quarter will deform and take the shape of the socket. It will lose it's identity however.


Hmmm...kinda like me at work. frown

Hey Jack! Are you coming down to Dunedin to get wrecked again this year at the Hangover Regatta?
Quite a ride last year, no? Note the gusts at 2-3pm from last year's chart . You should have used your Wave rather than the H-20.

Attached Files
Hangover wind 2010.jpg (387 downloads)
Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: David Parker] #226000
12/28/10 07:25 PM
12/28/10 07:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 41
Ottawa, Canada
BigWhoop Offline
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BigWhoop  Offline
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Ottawa, Canada
In a reply to the original post: My shrouds (new-to-me 2003 boat) are 14 feet 3/4 inch, near as dammit same as David Parker's.

David,
I haven't had the mast up yet 8-(. I think you should remove your bridle shackles and see how your (our) rig is. I'm hoping that with a ten hole adjuster on the forestay I can do Rick's trick and chuck the shroud adjusters and use shackles there. I'd do mine but:

1. Too cold.
2. Too much snow.
3. Boat is in bits underneath the deck.
4. Too cold.
5. The juniors are going to win the hockey tournament.

Charles

Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: BigWhoop] #226005
12/28/10 09:44 PM
12/28/10 09:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline OP
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David Parker  Offline OP
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
Quote
My shrouds (new-to-me 2003 boat) are 14 feet 3/4 inch, near as dammit same as David Parker's.


I spoke with the guy from Salty Dog Marine and he made the reasonable suggestion that my stays might be originally from a Classic Wave but the end clips had been cut off. That would give exactly that thimble to thimble length. What I have done so far is cut off the thimbles and added new ones, losing about 5 inches. Now the stays are too short so I swapped out all chain plates to 10-holes and it fits nicely. Standing on the tramp and holding the mast up I could reach forward and pull the forestay down to hole 8 for a pretty tight (but still floppy) rig, then secured the mast to the boat with the tail of the halyard under the beam. I did all of this solo at 4 a.m. Christmas morning in my pool so my son would find that Santa brought the boat ready-to-sail. I hit my pillow at 5 a.m. and he says he came down stairs and saw the boat at 6 a.m. That was close!

It's 34 degrees right now but Clearwater is predicted to be 78 on Friday. I hope to get the boat out of the pool and into the Gulf then. I'll have all new standing rigging by then.

Attached Files
P1000006.JPG (384 downloads)
Re: Wave shroud, bridle, and forestay lengths [Re: David Parker] #226016
12/29/10 08:48 AM
12/29/10 08:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
IndyWave Offline
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IndyWave  Offline
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Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
What a GREAT Christmas present!

Good job! Fantastic timing!

(I sure hope it warms up by February. I'll be in N. Redington Beach, sailing my condo's Waves.)


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
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