?

Absolutely, way too complicated any other way and runs the risk of splitting the class.

However some rating systems still rate the singlehander faster than the 2-up, which is a problem that needs to be addressed. Texel have addressed it but other systems haven't.

Equal handicap but the Uni's should be able to run a small jib as well to compensate for the lack of 4 hands.

I think 2 up is faster in almost all conditions. I am only competitive in the very narrow wind range where I can trap upwind/fly the hull downwind and the 2 ups can't. For me this is probably 7-8 KTs.

Below this I think it becomes too difficult to position my weight far enough forward, especially on the newer hull designs with a lot of volume in the bow/less in the stern. I fell very slow in the transition range where I am on and off the trap.

Once the 2 up crews are powered up, maybe 10-12 KTs?, it is difficult to keep up and it gets worse as the wind builds from there. Usually I am completely de-powered at about 13-14 KTs and I begin to loose the ability to comfortably race the boat, round marks, ect.

I agree with Wayne that something needs to be changed in the box rules to make uni more competitive. I don't know what that is or if it is even possible.

The “box” rules already allow this, but somebody has to be willing to explore the possibilities.

Versatility is what is being promoted and the ability to run “heavier” crew weights without suffering against the other formula classes. Uni is a different animal as the crew weight is so small and sail trim limited. Realistically less hull volume and for sure less sail area would be a big plus in fitting a boat to the lighter crew combo. Who wants to be that guy with the small main sail?

From my view, the current configuration winds under 7-8 and uni, the uni guys have a huge advantage. They have a giant power to weight advantage over the sloop, and the only way it even begins to be accounted for is the added ability to keep in trim with 4 hands. Is the uni sailor going to be willing to give that up to be in more control in all the rest of the conditions?

I'm certain the sloop is faster than most uni sailors in most conditions. However, I'm unconvinced it is more than just the nut on the tiller, for me that is certainly the case.

Personally, I would resist any rule change at present.

For now, at least, your remedy is to find a crew!

Chris,

are you using a sloop cut main when sailing 1-up or a specialized singlehanding mainsail ?

Wouter

I believe Karl Broger has bought a Uni main. It will be interesting to see how he does with it.

In the mean time, I'm still waiting to see someone with the skills and physical size of Tripp Burd sailing Uni. Until that happens, I'll be opposed to a rule change.

The box rules are quite specific, uni sail for uni sailors, how else can we differ from that. I have been thinking for a long time about this and cannot see any changes without rule changes.



I am sorry but beg to differ, the giant power to weight advantage is simply not there on the water, as soon as you have both hulls in the water then it really is "even stevens" with the sloop and dual crew being able to win hands down on every time a sail is changed. At lighter winds I think this is even more pronounced around race courses.

Hull dynamics and wetted surface drag do not change much with another 70kgs on board on modern hulls where as even a few years ago it would have changed things more proportionally.

We had a long discussion last year about this over on the F16 forum and I still think the 13.5sqm main with a 2.5m blade jib is the answer, but lets trial it first and see. At the moment it would be pointless to trial it in the UK as we are largely on SCHRS handicap system racing and that system kicks the jib totally into the unrealistic rating sphere.

Wouter,
I am using a uni main. However it is new and I am still working to get it set up right. I am playing with battens in the top of the sail to get the entry right and to ensure the top of the sail stays flat as the rotation is brought back and the mast stiffens. My main looks quite a bit different than Karl's new main. It looks to me as if Karl's follows Matt's idea and is smaller and flatter in the head??? Mine is bigger in the head. The "fullness" is basically the opposite of a sloop main, full in the bottom and flatter at the top.

Pete,
I do agree that we have no one who is really good sailing uni but I think the comparison should be between crews of equal skill. You professional level uni sailor would have to beat a professional level 2 up crew. I am not sure we have any of those sailing F16 in the U.S. either. I am not really looking for a rule change but it does feel as if uni is getting further behind.

We are not the only ones running into the same problems of the Uni sail, have a look at http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=226685&page=1. Here is a very foward thinking guy who is giving what is probably a hunch, a go. Matt may want to answer on this one as I'm pretty sure he knows a fair bit about this having sold Randy the A in question.

It would be very easy for the F16's to fit a small blade jib, we all have spinnaker poles and lower bridles to lock in the lower tack and just move over to having 2 front stays as per the A set up. On Bitsa I had a ferrule compressed on the stay wire about 1.5m down from the tang and then put a piece of D12 across between the stays to pull the top of the stays together to clear the top of the spinny, it works well. Use very small 2.5mm stays and the aerodynamic drag would be much the same.

Its not the size of the jib, its the jib slot effect and ease of setting the main with that jib slot, which makes the difference.

Dude, I feel your pain as I am a hell of lot further behind than you!

However, I think making the Uni appealing to top sailors is one way to make the class grow. Consider that in the Olympics the most prestigious events are for individuals not teams. The marathon, decathlon, and 100 meter come to mind. By keeping the Uni bar very high, it is my hope that world class athletes will drawn to the F16 class.

Nah the A will take the top sailors, its been to well established for just so long and they are a very nice boat to sail as a Uni. We all about the family orientated guy who on occassion wants to have a blast with a spinny and on some occassions race with his wife or family.

As a "mostly" Uni racer, but once in a great while Sloop sailor, I know that having the extra hands at the take down is what makes the Sloops faster. The tiny jib we already have is not enough sail area to account for the extra weight of adding a crew, unless your crew is ultra-light. But with 4 hands on deck, the skipper can drive around the leeward mark fast, trimming the main and looking for traffic, etc. while the crew is taking care of dousing the spin, setting the jib, the mast rotator, cunningham, boards, etc.

Having crew allows the skipper to concentrate on going fast. Not having crew I have to basically stop driving at the lee gate (and top mark but not as long) to take care of all the "Crew" duties, then once the spinn is taken care of, I can get back to racing.

I would love to see someone like Randy Smyth jump on and race Uni for a few regattas, see what he comes up with, rigging wise. But I still think a good (light) two up team will beat him in anything over 8 knots.

My uni main is the same dimensions as the sloop, just flatter. Battens are the same is how I came to that conclusion.

Initial setup was 1-5/8" of speaker rake, and 35 on the black Loos gauge.

If there were enough F16s at a regatta sailing uni and 2-up, would it be reasonable to split the results in that situation?

I will be sailing my blade uni at Midwinters in March. Who else is in, uni style?

NO. That is exactly what we are trying to avoid.

However, if the Uni sailors want to pitch in a few bucks to buy a bottle of Rum for the top placing Uni boat at a regatta, that's OK!

I've still got my (empty) Rum bottle up on a shelf and regard it as my favorite "Trophy". I will put the Conch shell next to it now.

;^)

Quit braggin'!

The rule seems pretty clear, but if anyone wants to get into it I'd suggest we set up a skype conference. We do that for the AGM and it seems to work out very well.

Thanks.

Because I think any singlehanded sailor who is not using an specialized uni-sail is not going to provide a fair comparison to the sloops. The last few percent of performance (assuming very well developped sailor skills) is coming from the sail cut.

I also don't believe uni's are without advantages. I tend to sail very deep under spi when 1-up in all conditions (and lifting a hull in the process).

The F16 setups were designed with a reasonable equality between 1-ups and 2-ups in mind. Not enough to have a shared start at say the Olympics but good enough for recreational weekend warrior racing.

I feel the uni setup has been trailing the development of the sloops a bit (such as in sail cut) and that some performance is till be had there.

Personally I don't support a rule change at this time as I don't think an oversight in the rules has been identified yet. Of course we must also accept that sailing well 1-up is simply more challenging then sailing well 2-up; there is just that much more to do on your own. That however doesn't mean that a skipper like Ashby sailing an F16 1-up will be on a par with a 2-up sailing Bundock/Brouwer and that is the only situation that the F16 class rules should rule upon in this respect.

Wouter