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Any Info? #226897
01/17/11 06:50 AM
01/17/11 06:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline OP
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DanTnz  Offline OP
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Hi All,

This class looks like a great concept, I'll be looking to build one of these for my son in a couple of years time.

I was just wondering, google search doesn't reveal a class association website or anything. Have I missed it?

Also, is there a definitive set of rules available? I note that there is already mention of some rules being changed already from the rules sticky'ed above - like pocket sails not having stays.

Grateful if anyone can point me in the right direction.

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Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz] #226901
01/17/11 07:54 AM
01/17/11 07:54 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,349
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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G'day DanTzn I modified the rules so what you see at the top of the page is the rules, you havn't missed anything the class was started on this forum and is still going please keep us up to date with your progress
regards Jeff


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Cant have two Ram Raiders at the same time so not named yet
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Arrow 1576
Re: Any Info? [Re: JeffS] #226903
01/17/11 08:44 AM
01/17/11 08:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline OP
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DanTnz  Offline OP
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Thanks Jeff, good to know that thems the rules.

I'll keep you up to date if there is any progress! Will be a couple of years before I'll attempt it and before the boy will be big enough to sail it. Cheers, Dan.

Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz] #226933
01/17/11 03:13 PM
01/17/11 03:13 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S


Another DS being built in Finland.

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Re: Any Info? [Re: ] #227051
01/19/11 09:55 AM
01/19/11 09:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 435
Finland
Gato Offline
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Gato  Offline
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Finland
Nice, any other DS12 sailing?

Re: Any Info? [Re: Gato] #227061
01/19/11 01:41 PM
01/19/11 01:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline OP
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DanTnz  Offline OP
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Guys, while I'm on the topic - whats the consensus on rigs?

I was thinking of a two piece round section carbon mast with a pocket luff sail. Simple, light, pretty cheap and easily transportable. But that was until read the rules more closely and worked out that the sail had to be able to be lowered at sea. I couldn't figure out a way of getting the spreaders and stays onto the mast and being able to lower the sail.

I see that Vudu looks to have a pocket sail and spreaders & stays, so there must be a way.

I was thinking the simplicity of the rig would outweigh any performance gained from a wing section mast - and mean one less control line (mast rotation).

Anyone put any thought into this? Dan

Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz] #227075
01/19/11 04:23 PM
01/19/11 04:23 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S


Gato no more sailing but a few in build.

DanTnz visit Gato's website www.gust.ax to see the carbon masts we are doing for the DS12s. The drawings for the DS have the spanner tieing off to the tramp. The idea is to set it on the beach and then go sailing. This gives more adjustablity than the H16 style stops on the mast step but still simplifies sailing for kids. I suspect that as kids get a little older and more experianced the means to adjust will be added.

Re: Any Info? [Re: ] #227139
01/20/11 03:36 PM
01/20/11 03:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline OP
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DanTnz  Offline OP
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Nice one, thanks for that, excellent series of photos. Where did the bolt rope insert come from?

Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz] #227149
01/20/11 05:33 PM
01/20/11 05:33 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S


Gato made it. You could get away with a single bigger tube which could be more easily made.

Re: Any Info? [Re: ] #227645
01/27/11 11:53 AM
01/27/11 11:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 435
Finland
Gato Offline
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Scarecrow is righ, a lot less work and you can also make a tube that is not round if you do it yourself.

Re: Any Info? [Re: Gato] #228423
02/09/11 09:33 AM
02/09/11 09:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline OP
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DanTnz  Offline OP
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Guys, thanks for the info. My aim is to be able to car top, mainly because I have to take a ferry to get on and off the Island, so trailer or overhangs = more dollars.

In theory, could such a mast be made two piece? My ideal would be a slightly shorter version of the Weta mast.

Has anyone put any thought into an unstayed mast? I would have thought previously that it wouldn't be stiff enough for the righting moment of a cat - or to trap off. But the Devoti One is carrying 11m2 and a 15m2 kite with no stays and designed for heavyweight crews, so it could be a possibility. It would be great just to able to drop the mast in and go.

Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz] #228438
02/09/11 12:48 PM
02/09/11 12:48 PM
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Finland
Gato Offline
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I started to make a mast in two pieces, but I did not complete it, I could still do it, I don't think there is a problem doing it. It will be a little heavier thats all.
There has been talk about an unstayed mast, but so far not interest enough to do one.

Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz] #228472
02/10/11 07:29 PM
02/10/11 07:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,305
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Originally Posted by DanTnz

Has anyone put any thought into an unstayed mast?


Wouter Hijink proposed this setup. He participates in this forum, just write to him.
All the best,


Luiz
Re: Any Info? [Re: Luiz] #228508
02/12/11 02:31 AM
02/12/11 02:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline OP
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DanTnz  Offline OP
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Thanks, just found the earlier thread that included what I wanted to know om Wouter's proposal.

I'll have to put some more thought into that - hadn't factored in the effect a trapeze could have on sail shape on an unstayed mast.

Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz] #228537
02/13/11 10:35 AM
02/13/11 10:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,305
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Originally Posted by DanTnz
Thanks, just found the earlier thread that included what I wanted to know om Wouter's proposal.

I'll have to put some more thought into that - hadn't factored in the effect a trapeze could have on sail shape on an unstayed mast.


I was told that the trapeze lines would be attached to tape reinforcements sewn to the sail sleeve. Use of the trapeze bends the mast to windward and back and this must be considered when making the sail.


Luiz
Re: Any Info? [Re: Luiz] #228549
02/14/11 05:42 AM
02/14/11 05:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline OP
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DanTnz  Offline OP
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I'm really attracted to a freestanding rig, I can't think of an elegant solution for the mast base. Wouter's solution would work fine but I think it would get in the way while sailing. Will have to get the calculator out for some other solutions. Countering the fore and aft loads seems to me to be the biggest problem.

Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz] #228565
02/14/11 12:37 PM
02/14/11 12:37 PM
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Another solution was proposed by PHil Brander that uses a hollow dolphin striker. Wouter's solution is structurally better, it is already used in a small Hobie and other boats.


Luiz
Re: Any Info? [Re: Luiz] #228587
02/15/11 04:14 AM
02/15/11 04:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline OP
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DanTnz  Offline OP
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I didn't realise Hobie did a freestanding rig, thanks for the tip - found it on their site: http://www.hobiecat.com/sailboats/bravo/

It's not the most elegant of solutions!

I thought of a hollow drop in tube down thru the beam onto a dolphin striker. I ruled it out as I was trying to avoid having a dolphin striker at all. I also thought it would have to be really big to take the fore and aft loads without any additional fore and aft bracing - then the solution is to have a kind of diagonal dolphin striker. But then the design is getting more and complex and the idea of the freestanding mast was simplicity.

So now I am back to square one in my reasoning - a conventional stayed rig might be simpler all round. It may be better to think of rapid rigging systems.

Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz] #228595
02/15/11 09:05 AM
02/15/11 09:05 AM
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Finland
Gato Offline
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With the present solution it takes about 15 min from cartop to sailing.
Btw. in Finland the mast is ok on top of the car.

Last edited by Gato; 02/15/11 09:06 AM.
Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz] #228646
02/15/11 08:42 PM
02/15/11 08:42 PM
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Originally Posted by DanTnz
I didn't realise Hobie did a freestanding rig...
It's not the most elegant of solutions!


It is quite elegant in terms of structural stresses.
I must agree that engineers are the only ones to consider efficient solutions inherently beautifull, though.


Luiz
Re: Any Info? [Re: Luiz] #228670
02/16/11 03:46 AM
02/16/11 03:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline OP
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DanTnz  Offline OP
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I guess elegance is in the eye of the beholder. When us engineers get it right though with the balance of function and form, the general public tend to appreciate it, especially sailors.

The freestanding rig is going on the back burner for now unless I or someone else has some sort of brainwave. I suspect a standard rig with synthetic stays and trap wire would be almost as practical - shame to lose the ability to weathervane the rig though, confidence building for youngsters to be able to completely de-power the boat.

Last edited by DanTnz; 02/18/11 03:48 AM.
Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz] #233953
06/22/11 07:47 PM
06/22/11 07:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
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I found this boat while surfing around the internet. It is rotomolded and looks very similar to f12, except for having more metal than a Honda Civic, lol. You'll see what I mean when you see it. Has very similar sail plan and there may be bits and pieces that translate to f12 boats. Available in France and UK. Built in France where catamaran building is govmnt subsidized to create exports.

http://www.windkart.fr/index.php?lang=en

Re: Any Info? [Re: ] #250942
07/19/12 09:57 PM
07/19/12 09:57 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5
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catcruzer Offline
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Thinking about bringing a Vudu HC over to Brisbane/Mackay/Townsville September October would there be any interest. Bill

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