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Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Keith] #230440
03/29/11 10:35 PM
03/29/11 10:35 PM
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Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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samc99us  Offline
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Solomon's Island, MD
Keith,

You mention lack of sailors. This came up on the SA thread, I ran the numbers for the past three years, the F-18 class has doubled in size since 2009 while the N20 fleet has basically remained constant over that time. Right now I feel the N20 fleet is on the decline (lots of boats for sale). I think most of those sailors are buying other boats, likely F18's. The argument was made that the F18 boys don't want to run their boats up on the beach for a week. That may be the case but I think they either don't have the balls, or are financially committed to other events (World Champ's in Europe).

There are plenty of distance racing events in Florida to get warmed up for a Tybee, big issue is getting a boat down to the keys and back for a 2 day event makes little sense for most.

I am very sad to see the catamaran distance racing scene on the Chesapeake die, especially as I am moving back into the area and would love to do some of my favorite races on a fast beach cat (Governor's Cup, Down the Bay). After selling the N20 I was planning on buying a F18 within the year. With the move to the area and the lack of fleet, it makes much more sense to buy a F16. That leaves me with a dilemma-I would not hesitate to take an F16 out in any weather I have seen on the bay, and distance racing it wouldn't be an issue there, but its not a Tybee boat. I think a F16 could do a Tybee, if you brought enough spare parts to support yourself. I think the F18/N20/F20c are better boats for the race, especially if upwind in steep, short chop is experienced.


Scorpion F18
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: samc99us] #230442
03/29/11 11:37 PM
03/29/11 11:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Sam,
I perhaps overstate the distance racing on the Bay as dead, but there is no more Down the Bay or Chesapeake 100. There is no more Icebreaker or Lighthouse races, the old CRAC begin and end of season mini-distance races. They have been replaced by the Spring and Pumpkin Patch regattas at WRSC, which are proper buoy racing affairs. The main distance event now is the NASS Annapolis to Oxford/Hammond Memorial, which is great, but it's kind of the only thing.

The distance racing in Florida is great, but you're right, the trip makes it hard - more distance racing up north is needed.

I think it would be interesting to see some newer F-18s on the Bay. In the past they haven't been popular, our guess has been the combo of light air and smaller sail area for the reason - but I figure the newer boats make up for that.

We've had a couple of 20s sell out of our area, so our numbers are dwindling a bit here.

The F-16 is great, and does well distance racing here (such as it is). The biggest thing is whether you want to spend a lot time on a boat by yourself. Going 2-up would be ok, but not at the average 20 sailor's mass.

I've seen a good number of days on the Bay where I'm perfectly happy being on shore...

Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Keith] #230453
03/30/11 09:04 AM
03/30/11 09:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Originally Posted by Keith
Sam,
I perhaps overstate the distance racing on the Bay as dead, but there is no more Down the Bay or Chesapeake 100. There is no more Icebreaker or Lighthouse races, the old CRAC begin and end of season mini-distance races. They have been replaced by the Spring and Pumpkin Patch regattas at WRSC, which are proper buoy racing affairs. The main distance event now is the NASS Annapolis to Oxford/Hammond Memorial, which is great, but it's kind of the only thing.

The distance racing in Florida is great, but you're right, the trip makes it hard - more distance racing up north is needed.

I think it would be interesting to see some newer F-18s on the Bay. In the past they haven't been popular, our guess has been the combo of light air and smaller sail area for the reason - but I figure the newer boats make up for that.

We've had a couple of 20s sell out of our area, so our numbers are dwindling a bit here.

The F-16 is great, and does well distance racing here (such as it is). The biggest thing is whether you want to spend a lot time on a boat by yourself. Going 2-up would be ok, but not at the average 20 sailor's mass.

I've seen a good number of days on the Bay where I'm perfectly happy being on shore...

My guess on the F-18 in the bay thing, is that the F-18 class does alot of traveling and Bay cat sailors (in general)don't. Mast up at West river makes it easy to not want to pack your boat up and go somewhere else.Not that I have that luxury.
F-18s seem to have almost as much power as the 20s now, so I think they would be a decent fit in the bay.

And to clarify,there is a big boat down the bay that cats are trying to get in to.That's probably the one Sam is referring to.
The Cat only Down the bay (The race that got me hooked on distance)is gone.That was a damn fine way to spend a Memorial day weekend.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #230458
03/30/11 09:29 AM
03/30/11 09:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Just to keep the focus on the essential problem.

The Chesapeake Distance races are gone because the sailors are gone... similar to the Tybee.

We killed off the Chesapeake events one by one as times changed and just in time so that we did not destroy the volunteers and bank account.

I set up the new Down the Bay (Non stop to Va Beach) with the organizers and we got to the Who's in.... we need 5... before we go further. Who will take the lead?

Answer.... Silence.

The core group... the rank and file adventure racer ranks are really small now. Perhaps these core guys should get together and organize a schedule of existing and potential events for a couple year period so that a variety of events survive up and down the east coast.



crac.sailregattas.com
Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #230459
03/30/11 09:31 AM
03/30/11 09:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
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Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
My guess on the F-18 in the bay thing, is that the F-18 class does alot of traveling and Bay cat sailors (in general)don't. Mast up at West river makes it easy to not want to pack your boat up and go somewhere else.Not that I have that luxury.
F-18s seem to have almost as much power as the 20s now, so I think they would be a decent fit in the bay.

And to clarify,there is a big boat down the bay that cats are trying to get in to.That's probably the one Sam is referring to.
The Cat only Down the bay (The race that got me hooked on distance)is gone.That was a damn fine way to spend a Memorial day weekend.


The Worrell was originally on Hobie 16s nonstop and going the wrong way.

The Tybee for all intensive purposes is the carryon of that race in name. It gradually morphed from H16 to the 20 (with various iterations along the way) and now is dead at least for a year.

Did the boat kill the race? Or did we as a sport get lazy and old, or is it the current economy? I am definitely not looking at this forum for an objective view here.

I did the inaugural version of the Tybee because I wanted to do it for the thrill of the race. We were asked by Chuck to run it this year on the F16 and if family, work and money were not all obstacles we would have tried to put together a team. It is not about the boat, for me anyway it is about doing the EVENT. It would be several orders of magnitude easier run on a 20 over a 16, but wheres the challenge come in?

These events are cult adventure races. You see documentaries about people climbing Everest because of the challenge, you do not see documentaries of people walking/hiking the foothills.



Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Matt M] #230461
03/30/11 09:39 AM
03/30/11 09:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
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Originally Posted by Matt M
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
My guess on the F-18 in the bay thing, is that the F-18 class does alot of traveling and Bay cat sailors (in general)don't. Mast up at West river makes it easy to not want to pack your boat up and go somewhere else.Not that I have that luxury.
F-18s seem to have almost as much power as the 20s now, so I think they would be a decent fit in the bay.

And to clarify,there is a big boat down the bay that cats are trying to get in to.That's probably the one Sam is referring to.
The Cat only Down the bay (The race that got me hooked on distance)is gone.That was a damn fine way to spend a Memorial day weekend.


The Worrell was originally on Hobie 16s nonstop and going the wrong way.

The Tybee for all intensive purposes is the carryon of that race in name. It gradually morphed from H16 to the 20 (with various iterations along the way) and now is dead at least for a year.

Did the boat kill the race? Or did we as a sport get lazy and old, or is it the current economy? I am definitely not looking at this forum for an objective view here.

I did the inaugural version of the Tybee because I wanted to do it for the thrill of the race. We were asked by Chuck to run it this year on the F16 and if family, work and money were not all obstacles we would have tried to put together a team. It is not about the boat, for me anyway it is about doing the EVENT. It would be several orders of magnitude easier run on a 20 over a 16, but wheres the challenge come in?

These events are cult adventure races. You see documentaries about people climbing Everest because of the challenge, you do not see documentaries of people walking/hiking the foothills.




+1


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #230464
03/30/11 09:51 AM
03/30/11 09:51 AM
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Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dUfuxWOY9c

It seems adventure is like ice cream, it comes in many different flavors.

I've been intrigued by the Everglades Challenge for some time. The top finishers complete it in 48 hours or so, the last finisher takes a week. They all pay about $350!

Maybe we need to broaden our outlook? Perhaps Tybee could be run in phases for those who only wish to do one stage at a time? Should there be a Tybee Ultra? A non stop event for the truly hard core?

Can you put three guys on a N-20, with enough provisions to sail 500 miles non stop? It would be grueling but probably cheaper.

How about a "replenishment" race? The entered boat doesn't stop but can take on/drop off crew and supplies. I'm never going to do the Tybee but would be very happy to sail a crew member with supplies to a boat offshore.

Last edited by pgp; 03/30/11 10:36 AM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

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Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: pgp] #230473
03/30/11 01:35 PM
03/30/11 01:35 PM
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Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
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Ur all saying that the interest is down? Everyone going to F18's and not wanting to because of that? If interest in distance racing is down, then why did the GT300 fill up so fast BEFORE the Tybee made any announcement of needing 12 or more teams? I seriously hope it comes back next year because I wasn't done doing it.
Management maybe to blame? Anyone remember the sour grapes about a few teams cutting the corner on Canaveral in 09? A penalty was imposed but to be honest with you, those at fault didn't complete the course. You fail to complete the course in any other race, and you're DSQ'd. I seem to remember a team in 05 maybe that got outside assistance in a capsize almost to the finish in Tybee and they got DSQ'd from the whole freekin race!
Jupiter beach in 07, Team Tybee flipped over back on the beach and Chuck ran down the beach blowing his whistle and waving his arms. A few teams stopped their attempt and asked Chuck if he was calling it. He wasn't the PRO, Sean Farrel was. Although Chuck had a pony in the race, he was/is still looked at as the final say in everything Tybee 500. This may make things a little grey when they need to be black and white. I'm not knocking Chuck. I'm grateful he put on a race that is close to my heart.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #230483
03/30/11 03:17 PM
03/30/11 03:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Annapolis,MD
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by Keith
Sam,
I perhaps overstate the distance racing on the Bay as dead, but there is no more Down the Bay or Chesapeake 100. There is no more Icebreaker or Lighthouse races, the old CRAC begin and end of season mini-distance races. They have been replaced by the Spring and Pumpkin Patch regattas at WRSC, which are proper buoy racing affairs. The main distance event now is the NASS Annapolis to Oxford/Hammond Memorial, which is great, but it's kind of the only thing.

The distance racing in Florida is great, but you're right, the trip makes it hard - more distance racing up north is needed.

I think it would be interesting to see some newer F-18s on the Bay. In the past they haven't been popular, our guess has been the combo of light air and smaller sail area for the reason - but I figure the newer boats make up for that.

We've had a couple of 20s sell out of our area, so our numbers are dwindling a bit here.

The F-16 is great, and does well distance racing here (such as it is). The biggest thing is whether you want to spend a lot time on a boat by yourself. Going 2-up would be ok, but not at the average 20 sailor's mass.

I've seen a good number of days on the Bay where I'm perfectly happy being on shore...

My guess on the F-18 in the bay thing, is that the F-18 class does alot of traveling and Bay cat sailors (in general)don't. Mast up at West river makes it easy to not want to pack your boat up and go somewhere else.Not that I have that luxury.
F-18s seem to have almost as much power as the 20s now, so I think they would be a decent fit in the bay.

And to clarify,there is a big boat down the bay that cats are trying to get in to.That's probably the one Sam is referring to.
The Cat only Down the bay (The race that got me hooked on distance)is gone.That was a damn fine way to spend a Memorial day weekend.


In the past the folks that would have been interested in the F18s saw them as underpowered for the Bay. I think that has changed with the new boats, but most people seem enamored with the F16 around here. But the emphasis does seem to be more buoy than distance, and I don't think adding the F18 to the Bay would change it much. It's something I consider from time to time.

The last I heard on the big boat down the bay race was that somehow the cats ran afoul of the organizers. Not sure where it really stands.

The F16 guys do a bit of travel. But I think we're at the point with the West River scene where we need some new blood as well.

Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Mark Schneider] #230484
03/30/11 03:21 PM
03/30/11 03:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Just to keep the focus on the essential problem.

The Chesapeake Distance races are gone because the sailors are gone... similar to the Tybee.

We killed off the Chesapeake events one by one as times changed and just in time so that we did not destroy the volunteers and bank account.

I set up the new Down the Bay (Non stop to Va Beach) with the organizers and we got to the Who's in.... we need 5... before we go further. Who will take the lead?

Answer.... Silence.

The core group... the rank and file adventure racer ranks are really small now. Perhaps these core guys should get together and organize a schedule of existing and potential events for a couple year period so that a variety of events survive up and down the east coast.



Didn't know the Down the Bay thing was still on the table, thought that one died in a squabble.

I think the core guys should get together and try to figure to get new blood in. Having the core save races will only last so long, IMO. We're seeing that now.

Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: TeamChums] #230485
03/30/11 03:29 PM
03/30/11 03:29 PM
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Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Originally Posted by TeamChums
Ur all saying that the interest is down? Everyone going to F18's and not wanting to because of that? If interest in distance racing is down, then why did the GT300 fill up so fast BEFORE the Tybee made any announcement of needing 12 or more teams? I seriously hope it comes back next year because I wasn't done doing it.
Management maybe to blame? Anyone remember the sour grapes about a few teams cutting the corner on Canaveral in 09? A penalty was imposed but to be honest with you, those at fault didn't complete the course. You fail to complete the course in any other race, and you're DSQ'd. I seem to remember a team in 05 maybe that got outside assistance in a capsize almost to the finish in Tybee and they got DSQ'd from the whole freekin race!
Jupiter beach in 07, Team Tybee flipped over back on the beach and Chuck ran down the beach blowing his whistle and waving his arms. A few teams stopped their attempt and asked Chuck if he was calling it. He wasn't the PRO, Sean Farrel was. Although Chuck had a pony in the race, he was/is still looked at as the final say in everything Tybee 500. This may make things a little grey when they need to be black and white. I'm not knocking Chuck. I'm grateful he put on a race that is close to my heart.


I've wanted to do GT (work in the way this year), but honestly couldn't do both that and Tybee in the same year unless I was divorced and unemployed. I haven't looked at the entry list for GT to see how many Tybee faithful are going there but didn't sign up for Tybee. GTs star does seem to be rising. But there just maybe aren't enough that would/could do both, so one will suffer unless the numbers of sailors are there. So I still think interest is down.

I'm with you on the '07 and '09 thing, especially in '09 when making the first buoy around Canaveral up front (one shining moment). And after hearing the spiel about spending the night in jail if you went inside the zone, it seemed a little odd the way it panned out. But those things won't keep me from doing it again.

Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Keith] #230489
03/30/11 04:34 PM
03/30/11 04:34 PM
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Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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Niether of those instances would keep me from coming back either.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: 2011 Tybee 500 - West River Fleet [Re: Keith] #230495
03/30/11 06:52 PM
03/30/11 06:52 PM
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Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline
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Originally Posted by Keith
..... But I think we're at the point with the West River scene where we need some new blood as well.


Hang on there, don't despair! The WRSC F16 fleet flushed out several "inactive" racers last year and have more coming back this year. Aric, Lee (before blowing out her knee), Tyler last year. Jeff this year. Also we have Mike C., a new F16 racer starting the season with us. There is additional interest but we need to find them used F16s and convince them to crew on N20s in the meantime. BTW, it was the F16 that got me back into racing in 2007 and I flipped my ride mid-2009 to bring in new blood.

Frankly, WRSC beachcat members are working the younger generation agenda to introduce kids to catamarans but we do not have an kid's pocket book price fleet. If you ask me, we would do better to do more racing in proximity to the big boats were everyone is crew except for the rich guy that can afford the expensive big boat. You know the experience just from Annapolis-Oxford race.

One day, I would like to see a beachcat course at Annapolis Race Week using Sandy Point as the beachcat race site with West River beachcat open house information at the party site in Annapolis Harbor. I'm sure the ARW video boat will collect a good amount of beachcat footage for the party because it is exciting to watch and different. Then we should have the open house the following weekend (video, food, drinks and music) and get them out on the wire. The weekend following the open house weekend is the 33nm Annapolis-Oxford distance race were the beachcat fleet starts last and sails past 99% of the big boats (damn that 72 ft Donnybrook). All of the big boat crew that went to our open house or spoke to us at ARW will infect the other big boat crew members as we race past, out on the wire, hull lifting, and big grins our faces. It is the perfect recruitment strategy for the West River beachcats.

Otherwise, we need to speed up the beachcat procreation strategy wink.



Kris Hathaway
Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Keith] #230498
03/30/11 07:03 PM
03/30/11 07:03 PM
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Maryland
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Originally Posted by Keith
In the past the folks that would have been interested in the F18s saw them as underpowered for the Bay.


The F18s have not made a dent in the Annapolis area because the N20 fleet has been so strong and was entrenched before the F18 was introduced. It is a function of wanting to race what everyone else is racing and the N20 has been THE West River/Annapolis area 2-up, line honors boat to race.


Kris Hathaway
Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Kris Hathaway] #230499
03/30/11 07:10 PM
03/30/11 07:10 PM
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
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Originally Posted by Kris Hathaway
Originally Posted by Keith
In the past the folks that would have been interested in the F18s saw them as underpowered for the Bay.


The F18s have not made a dent in the Annapolis area because the N20 fleet has been so strong and was entrenched before the F18 was introduced. It is a function of wanting to race what everyone else is racing and the N20 has been THE West River/Annapolis area 2-up, line honors boat to race.


We're talking present tense. How many active n-20s are left at WRSC? For the bigger guys ,the f-16 isn't an option, the F-18 would be. I hate seeing the N-20 fleet dwindle there because that was pretty much my home fleet(along way from home, but home).


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: 2011 Tybee 500 [Re: Kris Hathaway] #230508
03/31/11 12:53 AM
03/31/11 12:53 AM
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Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Originally Posted by Kris Hathaway
Originally Posted by Keith
In the past the folks that would have been interested in the F18s saw them as underpowered for the Bay.


The F18s have not made a dent in the Annapolis area because the N20 fleet has been so strong and was entrenched before the F18 was introduced. It is a function of wanting to race what everyone else is racing and the N20 has been THE West River/Annapolis area 2-up, line honors boat to race.


Tigers and Inter-18s would show up for CRAC races out of West River and other venues, and usually the comments were the same from folks - wanted/needed more horsepower for the light days. It was one of the reasons the N-20s continued to catch on instead. This was a while ago. I think the modern boats would have a chance. But most people in Annapolis are looking to the F-16, one reason is you don't need to mess with crew unless you want to.

Re: 2011 Tybee 500 - West River Fleet [Re: Kris Hathaway] #230509
03/31/11 01:09 AM
03/31/11 01:09 AM
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Keith Offline
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Not despairing yet - just noticing boats being sold out of the area when before we had people in open boats ready to snap up some of those newer boats when they became available.

The kid's (or anybody's) pocket book fleet can be any cheapo boat kept at Church St. and brought out for Tuesdays (and of course whenever else they want to sail or race), which we should help promote. I know it would seem wrong for the WRSC to promote outside of the club, but they'd get to race against club members and might move in when a boat opens up as their experience goes up as well.

But more to the thread, how do we get the remaining N-20 and F-16 guys to go and do things like Tybee? I've got one or two ideas, maybe we'll see what the interest is...

Re: 2011 Tybee 500 - West River Fleet [Re: Keith] #230518
03/31/11 10:29 AM
03/31/11 10:29 AM
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Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Keith..

They F18 sailors will turn to distance racing when they get bored with turning left all the time.

However...It might be a small number of sailors who want to break the pattern and race from A to B.

Back in the day... the Hobie 16 and 18 sailors were the core group for all of the distance races.... They did both. Now a days... they have a very strong fleet and no ... zero interest in distance races. (understandably, they don't want to finish 2 to 3 hours behind the spin 20's and that is probably a strong negative unless they could get a fleet of like minded H16 sailors together.)

Perhaps, the strong one design buoy racing scene keeps them interested in buoys sailing and they don't have the itch to go some place on their boat. Those Hobie sailors with the itch to sail from A to B have moved on.

Another possibility ... when CRAC was successfully running distance races... our buoy races were all on portsmouth and we had a real range of boats.... We had 20 years of no strong one design racing to speak of... Distance racing on portsmouth was much more fun then portsmouth buoy racing.

Since the beach cat world has consolidated into a handful of fleets you have to look for distance racers in those ranks.
Bottom line, the group of sailors with the itch to go from A to B is small in any of our current OD fleets.

Your point that we don't have many opportunities to get experience in distance races may be true but not that important.. We still don't have new sailors taking on a 40 mile race with 200 other boats... We just get our 5 to 10 boats... same guys... no new faces.

So, I think that until the F18 and F16 sailors get bored with turning left week in and week out the numbers will be small. Putting a 1000 mile race on the schedule might get the old guard back out for their last extreme race... but probably not the average weekend warrior.

Finally, the more single handed the fleet becomes... the less likely that a distance race will be popular. I am not likely to run a 40 mile race on my A cat.... turns out the big boats need lots of crew and I want to do Annapolis to Bermuda one day!

My suggestion then.... Just keep asking the F18 and F16 sailors... are you bored with turning left yet?


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: 2011 Tybee 500 - West River Fleet [Re: Mark Schneider] #230534
03/31/11 11:27 AM
03/31/11 11:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 120
M
maritimesailor Offline
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maritimesailor  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 120
I would have loved to have done the Tybee at some point, but here are my reasons I have not (listing as I'm sure others have similar reasons), in no particular order:

- Cost. My boat coast 20k, I'm not going to destroy it launching on and off a beach until I have more money, just don't have that right now. Other costs, being there, not being at work, lodgings, etc, just can't do it.

- I'm not bored of "turning left". In fact, I doubt I ever will, as I get to do lots of hoists, douses, starts, roundings, etc per race. And lots of races. I've done tonnes of distance racing in bigger boats (from 300 miles to atlantic crossing) and yes, they are fun, but a different bag of tricks. If you are hooked on starts / roundings / lots of manouvers in tight quarters, distance racing doesn't have the draw you would think it does.

- Time: Similar to costs, my boat does 10+ events in about a very limited season (I'm a northerner, waaaay north). To dedicate the week to a long distance event would mean dropping other events. With the NAs being close to me this year, I need every one of those small weekend events just to be able to hang with the "big guns".

I can see myself doing a distance race, possibly in a year where I'm not going to do the NAs or similar, and I hope tybee comes back, or similar events crop up.

My suggestion (as someone who knows nothing about the event as I've never done it):
- Have "team packages" like team velocitek. I.e I pay x dollars and get all the land support, logistics, etc taken care of. X dollars should be a fair price that is helped out by sponsorship
- Perhaps shorter versions of the race for people who can't commit to the entire time off (I'm guessing this is a big reason for drop off as the F18 fleet gets more competitive, teams have more events to go to with the same amount of vaca time).
- Fleets should help sponsor this (manufacturers, etc). I live in a city where we are THE racing cat (not the best, the only ;-). After all the SA coverage of Tybee two years ago I had three keel boaters offer to be my land support if we planned on racing Tybee. They had never heard of F18 sailing or anything, they just were so enthralled by the idea of the Tybee. I think events like this have a large part to play in promoting multi sailing.

Just my 2 cents, and personally I can't wait to do a distance race, just not sure when. Maybe I can convince the local "big boat" fleet to let me join there 30 + mile day races.

Cheers,
-P

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Keith..

They F18 sailors will turn to distance racing when they get bored with turning left all the time.

However...It might be a small number of sailors who want to break the pattern and race from A to B.

Back in the day... the Hobie 16 and 18 sailors were the core group for all of the distance races.... They did both. Now a days... they have a very strong fleet and no ... zero interest in distance races. (understandably, they don't want to finish 2 to 3 hours behind the spin 20's and that is probably a strong negative unless they could get a fleet of like minded H16 sailors together.)

Perhaps, the strong one design buoy racing scene keeps them interested in buoys sailing and they don't have the itch to go some place on their boat. Those Hobie sailors with the itch to sail from A to B have moved on.

Another possibility ... when CRAC was successfully running distance races... our buoy races were all on portsmouth and we had a real range of boats.... We had 20 years of no strong one design racing to speak of... Distance racing on portsmouth was much more fun then portsmouth buoy racing.

Since the beach cat world has consolidated into a handful of fleets you have to look for distance racers in those ranks.
Bottom line, the group of sailors with the itch to go from A to B is small in any of our current OD fleets.

Your point that we don't have many opportunities to get experience in distance races may be true but not that important.. We still don't have new sailors taking on a 40 mile race with 200 other boats... We just get our 5 to 10 boats... same guys... no new faces.

So, I think that until the F18 and F16 sailors get bored with turning left week in and week out the numbers will be small. Putting a 1000 mile race on the schedule might get the old guard back out for their last extreme race... but probably not the average weekend warrior.

Finally, the more single handed the fleet becomes... the less likely that a distance race will be popular. I am not likely to run a 40 mile race on my A cat.... turns out the big boats need lots of crew and I want to do Annapolis to Bermuda one day!

My suggestion then.... Just keep asking the F18 and F16 sailors... are you bored with turning left yet?

Re: 2011 Tybee 500 - West River Fleet [Re: Mark Schneider] #230542
03/31/11 11:36 AM
03/31/11 11:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 129
Austin, TX
BoK Offline
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BoK  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 129
Austin, TX
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Keith..

They F18 sailors will turn to distance racing when they get bored with turning left all the time.

However...It might be a small number of sailors who want to break the pattern and race from A to B.



We aren't bored with turning left, and we still have a strong F18 fleet doing the GT300. There are already 9 F18s signed up and there will be a few more. Come on down and race!

I just made my hotel reservations for all of the stops and the total bill was $746.54 for our team plus ground crew.

Also, there may be some local boats available for charter.



Bo Kersey
Corsair 31-1D 276
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