Tim,
You are totally lost. Race cars crash, motorcycles crash, bikes crash, stunt planes crash, sailboats crash, thats what the top of the game is about, pushing the limits of what can be done. Do you know how long they were out before they capsized? Neither do I, but I'd bet it was long enough to learn something about the boat, and how to make it go in high wind.

Expensive boats? Yeah they are and these guys are paid thousands of dollars a day to sail them. Do you know what the Oracle tri entourage was equipped with when they went out on the water to test it? Divers, medics, jaws of life, just because they knew they were pushing the envelope. Thats the game they are playing and my bet is they know how to play it better than you.

Not trying to be hostile but you are totally off base in your criticisms.

Oh, and its not blowing 40 at the top of the spar when ground wind is 29. How do I know? The masthead of the boat I run is 100 feet off the water, and we have never seen a 30% difference in ground wind vs wind aloft. Most I would say is maybe 5-10% tops.

Dave is right on with his comments.

Travel out, head up, spill a little more off the top. Figure out how to sail it flat and keep it driving in 33 knts. That is their job. They are being paid to win.

And...they were practicing, not racing.

My own personal motto; thou shall not understand the true existence of "the limit" if thou does not exceed it on occasion.

I'd like to read the details if they do an incident report. I'm wondering if something broke, or got stuck coming around the mark in the bear away, and what actually caused it to flip. I'm guessing it was designed to stand up to (and be driven in) what ever the maximum wind speed is that they picked.

It's one thing to be out racing, to be in second place of a two boat race, and you need to push it "to the limit" to get into first place. It's another thing entirely to crash the boat while out "Practicing" and risk destroying the boat, the wing and more importantly, a crew member or two.

For what?

These things are not beach cats. You could get killed in a crash with the loads and the speeds they are making. The 72 footers will be even more loaded up and subject to more pain if/when they find "the limits". As in that video Jake posted of the soft sailed VX 40's that were crashing, one guy said, "It's a good thing we were wearing our helmets."

But they were racing, not practicing.

If my view of Practice makes me a great big pussy, so be it, I can -live- with that.

When is the last time any of you keyboard comando's went out and sailed your punny little beach cats in 29knots? How'd that work out for you?

OK, now go out on a 45' wingmasted carbon fiber monster and find "the limits".

Yeah, right.

Timbo,

I usually lean towards "safety" .....

...but ....

That's why those guys make the BIG $$$$$$$'s ....

(as a airline pilot .... I applaud your views on safety .... because there ... there is NO margin of safety too large ....)

Harry

So, they are being paid to flip big expensive boats when out practicing?

Hell I can do that...and I'll do it for -half- of what ever they are paying these guys! Where do I sign up?

;^)

From Mr. Sloansailig above:

"Expensive boats? Yeah they are and these guys are paid thousands of dollars a day to sail them. Do you know what the Oracle tri entourage was equipped with when they went out on the water to test it? Divers, medics, jaws of life, just because they knew they were pushing the envelope. Thats the game they are playing and my bet is they know how to play it better than you."


Yes, they do, and please tell me how many times they flipped the Oracly Tri when out for a practice sail?

See...I thought they were getting paid the Big Bucks to NOT flip the boat, and who said they were "Finding the Limit" of -anything- when it happened?

Maybe they just fkd up?

Dude, you act like they're spending YOUR money.

Give it a rest and enjoy the show.

I'd love to 'enjoy the show', but the show I want to see is big cats sailing fast, not big cats lying on their sides.

I thought the AC45 were designed just to do what they were doing so they would have a better understanding when it came to the 72's. I recall one AC defender that did not push the limits in practice just to have there boat fall apart in the cup match. Lessons learned.

Practice is when you are supposed to make mistakes and get them out f the way. It's like the starting practice I had the other day...I was over early 3 out of 5 times because it was an opportunity to push it where it didn't matter. These guys get paid to do well in the main event. Their sponsors are happy that way. Their sponsors also get happy when there stuff is shown around the world before hand and talked about (like now). It's all good. It's part of the deal.

Three weeks ago we were out with our training partner in 20-25 gusting over 30. Really raised the confidence level. We didn't hoist the kite, but our partner boat did. They pitchpoled, righted, and kept sailing. Both of us gained a lot of experience and considering we've only been sailing the boat a year, I was happy that my wife was willing to go out, and we are both way better off because we did. Last weekend when the wind built to 20, we felt totally confident, and we knew what to do to make the boat settle down. And thats why you go out in the upper wind limits.

Look the fact is the AC is considered by many to be the pinnacle of the sport. At that level of sailing, you better have your **** together. The Tri was a one off build that couldn't be replaced. The 45's are series production one design boats, with more on the way and common parts and pieces. Big difference. They cost a tiny fraction what the tri did.

Whats amazing is that they didn't damage the wing more than a little bit. This is showing more and more that the wings are more durable than many people thought.

" We didn't hoist the kite, but our partner boat did. They pitchpoled, righted, and kept sailing."

So using your own earlier logic, you know, back when you said I had little balls, you should have also hoisted your own kite and crashed too, you would have learned so much more, right? Especially if that crash had led to a broken mast and a tow back to the beach.

And just think of all the 'new confidence' your wife would now have in your driving abilities after that!

Thanks for making my point.

But what if they learned from their pitchpole and know how to do it right next time?

As I said back on page 2 of this way too long winded non-sense of a thread:

I don't know what their objective was for the day, maybe it was; "Let's see what it takes to flip this thing!"

In my opinion (and it is MINE, you go get your own!) a true Professional Crew would take a new boat right up to the limit, then pull it back just a little bit, and slowly work their way up to "Ohh Sheet, back off!" and not go straight to "Now We're Fkd!"

I'm going to assume they are the best and they know what they are doing. I'm going to assume the designers and builder knew what wind and loads to build to.


So I'm going to assume something -unusual- happened, ie. someting broke or "The Gust from Hell" came along and knocked them over.

But until we hear from someone onboard as to exactly what happened, I'll assume they were not trying to push it to (and over) the limit just to see what would happen.

When it comes to racing, to win, first you have to finish. You don't have to push it to the limit, just a little harder than the other guy.

Tim, I think you would acknowledge that a DOG race platform demands a different approach than the working-up of a one design AC45 type of program. Essentially preservation of the prime asset vs all out maximizing of the tool of the trade. How many times have we been in awe of the skilled buggers who have had the balls to set the kite in insane conditions to come from behind and deservedly win.(more impressive was that 18' skiff that was ahead when it set the chute on the last leg in Sidney an won the series and schooled the fleet).Prudence might be wise, but mastering intimidating situations to absolute victory is how legends are born, and how sponsors are flock to the program. These guys operate in a different paradigm. Dollars are abundant to those who dare and win. A few million spent on broken parts in pursuit of victories that bring in tens of millions is a reasonable investment. however, Im rather glad that as an airline pilot you don't have the cowboy gene necessary to think these stunts are normal.
Cheers,
Pete

Breaking stuff is in their budget / business plan. Breath in, breath out, move on...

Here's how you do it correctly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GRZGQzDTDaU


On the Cowboy Gene thing, yeah we all have it or we wouldn't be racing cats, right?

I know I could never have survived Air Force Pilot Training or flown 4 ship formation at 500 knots without it. I was lucky to have survived myself, I had lots of friends who were not as lucky. Given the choice of luck or skill, I'll take luck, but I know I've already used up most of my luck!

Your (almost) menstrual about this.