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Re: vmg for uni [Re: mikeborden] #232039
05/06/11 04:42 PM
05/06/11 04:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
I have no idea what equip they are using... I do remember John Mc talking about adjusting to his new ... very flat spinnaker.

Just pointing you to some results.


crac.sailregattas.com
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Re: vmg for uni [Re: Mark Schneider] #232186
05/10/11 03:59 PM
05/10/11 03:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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I don't know squat but I do know that you guys are notorious for pinching. Maybe not having a jib keeps you from watching what you're doing...

Believe me, it took FON, Ding, Alex, Capt Kirk, and some other notables about two years to beat the pinching out of me on a sloop. I'd bet I'll still pinch to the stars on a uni


Jay

Re: vmg for uni [Re: waterbug_wpb] #232196
05/10/11 10:49 PM
05/10/11 10:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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samc99us  Offline
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Solomon's Island, MD
Pinching is easy to do on a uni, front of the main stalls later than the front of a jib due to the mast. Its also a really bad habit from dinghy sailing for some, as the breeze builds in a slow boat (V15 for example), one can pinch to make better VMG. Of course, good boats plane upwind and there is a point where pinching really kills you because you can't plane while pinching (unless its blowing beyond stink).

Time on the boat is what separates good drivers from the best. A custom UNI sail may help but if you are pinching thats not going to make much difference. Footing off slightly in any high performance boat is usually better than pinching slightly.

Last edited by samc99us; 05/10/11 10:50 PM.

Scorpion F18
Re: vmg for uni [Re: samc99us] #232226
05/11/11 01:07 PM
05/11/11 01:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
therin lies the rub... how to get a handle on pinching/footing in "uni" mode.

From your comment, you can't judge the telltales the same way as you would in sloop mode.

Which begs the question as to what method works best at evaluating your heading.

Would it be safe to assume the best means would be heading down until the backside stalls and head up 5 or so degrees?


Jay

Re: vmg for uni [Re: waterbug_wpb] #232227
05/11/11 01:28 PM
05/11/11 01:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
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Matt M  Offline
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Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
therin lies the rub... how to get a handle on pinching/footing in "uni" mode.

From your comment, you can't judge the telltales the same way as you would in sloop mode.

Which begs the question as to what method works best at evaluating your heading.

Would it be safe to assume the best means would be heading down until the backside stalls and head up 5 or so degrees?


The tells on a main are not nearly sensitive enough to steer off , in my opinion.
5 degrees in angle is way too much swing normally and the amount needed is dependent on the wind and wave conditions so some fixed number is bogus 99% of the time.

I have asked a lot of the top guys what they use and pretty much universally the answer has been – FEEL

Know your boat. If you are not moving forward as fast as you should (or as fast as those around you) with the wind pressures you are in then you are doing something wrong with the tiller and/or the sheet.

Re: vmg for uni [Re: Matt M] #232228
05/11/11 02:53 PM
05/11/11 02:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline OP
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pgp  Offline OP
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AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!! [beating head against wall]

Some of us just don't have that feel. laugh


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: vmg for uni [Re: pgp] #232230
05/11/11 03:17 PM
05/11/11 03:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
"Feel" only comes with time on the boat.

Pete, one way to quickly develop a little more feel is to let some kid who doesn't know how to drive, drive your boat.

I find when I let my kids drive, I can tell if they are too high or too low just by the sound the water is making coming off the rudders. You will be able to feel the boat slowing down when they start pinching, and of couse the sound gets quieter as they slow.

If you can't find a kid to steer (poorly) for you, then the next time you go out alone, try sailing upwind with your eyes closed and listen to the sound the water makes as you slow or accelerate.

The kids just got home from school, I've got two boats rigged up out back and we are going out to practice our -feel-. It is kind of light wind out which only makes it more important not to pinch! Stall a Hobie 14 in light air and you are going to be sitting there a while!


Blade F16
#777
Re: vmg for uni [Re: pgp] #232231
05/11/11 04:06 PM
05/11/11 04:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
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Matt M  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Originally Posted by pgp
AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!! [beating head against wall]

Some of us just don't have that feel. laugh


The guys with natural instincts still have a gazillion hours sailing and sailing fast.

This is why we race – you get to line up repeatedly with other boats. If you cannot “feel” it then you should at least see how you are comparing to similar boats. If you are not going as well then you have a 99% chance it is the tiller and/or the sheet.

Next to the A, the F16 is by far the most sensitive boat I have sailed. It provides pretty obvious feedback when it accelerates or decelerates. Trim and helm adjustments are likewise almost instantaneous. If you make the boat go faster, it is almost always the right move. Other than that I use noise a lot. A loud noise from the wake and you know you are not balanced. There is a definite rhythm to the boat going through the waves and the sound of the wind. Slow beat means slow boat. When I have helm issues or the helm feels heavy, I know I am not sheeted properly; I’m pinching or doing something else to make myself slow.

No magic pills. Just time and being aware.

Re: vmg for uni [Re: Timbo] #232351
05/13/11 10:46 AM
05/13/11 10:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
Originally Posted by Timbo
"Feel" only comes with time on the boat.

Pete, one way to quickly develop a little more feel is to let some kid who doesn't know how to drive, drive your boat.



Crap, Tim. He already did that when he invited me out for a sail a little while back.... smile


Jay

Re: vmg for uni [Re: waterbug_wpb] #232359
05/13/11 12:22 PM
05/13/11 12:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Timbo  Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Yeah but he probably couldn't hear the wind/water with all your farting.

Smell that fresh breeze Pete?

Jay, head up...

;^)


Blade F16
#777
Re: vmg for uni [Re: Timbo] #232379
05/13/11 02:01 PM
05/13/11 02:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline
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Kris Hathaway  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Luke....feel the force!!!!


Kris Hathaway
Re: vmg for uni [Re: Kris Hathaway] #232395
05/13/11 05:43 PM
05/13/11 05:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 118
Pensacola, FL
C
Cab Offline
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Cab  Offline
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C

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 118
Pensacola, FL
I think uni is slower in all but very light winds. Uni just can't keep up up wind once the two ups are on the trap.

Last edited by Cab; 05/13/11 10:14 PM. Reason: delete

Chris
Trident F16
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