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Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: oxj] #233698
06/18/11 08:27 AM
06/18/11 08:27 AM
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pgp Offline
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Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: oxj] #233699
06/18/11 08:57 AM
06/18/11 08:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Quote
One of the challenges with the F16 is that it seems to have a very large 'optimal' crew weight range. The optimal weight greatly depends on the conditions. The lighter the crew the sooner they're trapping and able to sail much higher and faster than the heavier teams. On the flip side, when the wind gets over 10kts the '260 teams' become at a disadvantage which only grows as the wind picks up. To some extent this applies to most cats, but it really seems magnified on the F16 due to the variations in speed it is capable of producing.


World Class helms like Carolijn Brewer can sail light and minimize the disadvantage as the wind builds (see last years Euro results).

You also see this effect when single handers are sailing in that 6 to 10 knot range. They are just fast.

Should it make it through the ISAF trials... I predict the Olympic fleet will settle on light ... (set the boat up for the lulls)


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: pgp] #233701
06/18/11 11:22 AM
06/18/11 11:22 AM
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oxj Offline
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Originally Posted by pgp


Can't tell if Newberry got a 7 or 9 in that race.

Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: oxj] #233702
06/18/11 11:30 AM
06/18/11 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by oxj
Originally Posted by pgp


Can't tell if Newberry got a 7 or 9 in that race.

9 . . . . and FLUSHED.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: P.M.] #233703
06/18/11 12:59 PM
06/18/11 12:59 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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OOOOMMMFFFF. That hurts.


Jake Kohl
Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: Jake] #233704
06/18/11 01:30 PM
06/18/11 01:30 PM
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pgp Offline
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Nothing from today? The top three spots are very close!

Make that top four...

Last edited by pgp; 06/18/11 01:32 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: pgp] #233705
06/18/11 01:49 PM
06/18/11 01:49 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 127
Rock Hill,SC
KevinRejda Offline OP
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Rock Hill,SC
On the beach in Long Beach. Already seeing about 9 knots, getting set for a noon start. Gonna' try to get 4 heats off today, that will make an 11 race series. Only 3 teams have yet to be flushed; Pitt/Pitt, Guiliano/Guiliano, and Struble/Lacasella.

Last edited by KevinRejda; 06/18/11 01:50 PM.

Kevin Rejda
Rock Hill, SC

Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: Mark Schneider] #233706
06/18/11 01:57 PM
06/18/11 01:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 52
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oxj Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Quote
One of the challenges with the F16 is that it seems to have a very large 'optimal' crew weight range. The optimal weight greatly depends on the conditions. The lighter the crew the sooner they're trapping and able to sail much higher and faster than the heavier teams. On the flip side, when the wind gets over 10kts the '260 teams' become at a disadvantage which only grows as the wind picks up. To some extent this applies to most cats, but it really seems magnified on the F16 due to the variations in speed it is capable of producing.


World Class helms like Carolijn Brewer can sail light and minimize the disadvantage as the wind builds (see last years Euro results).

You also see this effect when single handers are sailing in that 6 to 10 knot range. They are just fast.

Should it make it through the ISAF trials... I predict the Olympic fleet will settle on light ... (set the boat up for the lulls)


Mark, It doesn't matter who the sailor is. All the Olympic tornado teams were extremely close in terms of boat speed and maneuvers. Interestingly, even on the Tornado the crew weight differences we're obvious from light to heavy weather conditions. On the F16 that weight sensitivity is magnified.

Sailing at 260lbs in 12kts is a definite disadvantage against a team at 310lbs and a huge advantage in 6-8kts. But if all teams are around 260-280 then it really doesn't matter.

Problem arises when teams try to optimize their weight for the anticipated wind conditions (look at the things teams did for China). The racing becomes more about guessing the correct weight instead of the sailing.

Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: KevinRejda] #233707
06/18/11 02:20 PM
06/18/11 02:20 PM
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pgp Offline
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Thanks Kevin. Good job!


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: pgp] #233708
06/18/11 03:18 PM
06/18/11 03:18 PM
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Wow. What a last day for the championship. Looks like 3 teams have the best chance to win it, one a co-ed team, and another a youth team. Newberry will have an (at best) 11 in race 10. So . . .
after 9 races Struble has a 3 point lead over Reiss, 4 point lead over Pitt. Getting that 4th race in today could mean everything. And I expect Newberry mixing it up in Race 11,12,13? and could provide the total points separation between the first and second overall leaders in a spoiler. Damn exciting!


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: P.M.] #233714
06/18/11 07:39 PM
06/18/11 07:39 PM
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pgp Offline
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No updates? Should be over by now.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: P.M.] #233719
06/18/11 09:31 PM
06/18/11 09:31 PM
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Final Results here.
If this is correct, Congratulations to the Champion Matt Struble/ Damon Lacasella with a one point lead over Taylor Reiss/ Matthew Whitehead. A HUGE congratulations to Taylor and Matthew for an outstanding finish. Looking forward to hearing the details.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: P.M.] #233720
06/18/11 11:17 PM
06/18/11 11:17 PM
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Struble Wins Record Breaking Fourth U.S. Multihull Championship

I'm confused as to the record breaking statement. Didn't Smyth win 4 championships? Although he competed in more than 4, but still . . .


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: P.M.] #233721
06/19/11 12:17 AM
06/19/11 12:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 74
Australia
Helen (AHPC) Offline
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Australia
Congratulations to Matt & Damon for their win. Well done to all the crews.

Also, well done to Jill & Robbie from Red Gear Racing for the amazing effort they have put into this championships - Not just this year, but the previous 3 years.

And well done to all their "Pitt Crew" for keeping the Vipers on the water and in A1 condition. If it wasn't for guys like this there would be no championship.

It is interesting to note that in the top 5 places there were 3 all guys teams, 1 all girls, and 1 mixed team. Really shows the versatility of the Viper

Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: David Ingram] #233722
06/19/11 12:53 AM
06/19/11 12:53 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 127
Rock Hill,SC
KevinRejda Offline OP
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Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!!! Dave Ingram called this one. Wish you coulda' been here Dave, this place rocks!
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Undecided
JC has this one wrapped up.

who's the bookie for this event?


I'll take some of that action. As much as I'd like to see our local boys take the gold Struble is taking this one.

Last edited by KevinRejda; 06/19/11 01:06 AM.

Kevin Rejda
Rock Hill, SC

Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: Helen (AHPC)] #233725
06/19/11 04:17 AM
06/19/11 04:17 AM
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Right on Helen,

Quote

It is interesting to note that in the top 5 places there were 3 all guys teams, 1 all girls, and 1 mixed team. Really shows the versatility of the Viper



And another proof is in that racing the Viper / F16's is fair to a wide range of crew weights.

So much for gut-feelings that such a boat will enormously favour featherweights. It simply doesn't. Are you paying attention Mark ?

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: Wouter] #233726
06/19/11 04:19 AM
06/19/11 04:19 AM
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Congrats to the winners and many thanks to the organisors and boatsuppliers !

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: Wouter] #233730
06/19/11 09:07 AM
06/19/11 09:07 AM
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Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Quote

So much for gut-feelings that such a boat will enormously favour featherweights. It simply doesn't. Are you paying attention Mark ?

Wouter


Are you kidding me... Strubble has a world championship on his resume.... The ladies don't.

Struble commented about the weight issue and how problematic it was for them.

OJX put it well about the unique nature of the F16 designs..

One more minor point on the issue, the F16's are weight sensitive in a very very different way then say a Hobie 16 or a Dart 18.

IF ISAF picks an F16 flavor, the Olympic fleet will land on the weight range that gets them qualified and to the games. The range will be similar to previous Olympic fleets +/- 10 to 15 pounds and the mean will be on the low end relative to Men's or Open classes. The boat should drop out of the equation. If it doesn't... it would be a terrible Olympic choice.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: KevinRejda] #233731
06/19/11 09:58 AM
06/19/11 09:58 AM
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pgp Offline
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I don't suppose any weights were taken.

It seems to me weight was NOT an issue and would only become an issue if the wind was constant throughout the series.

My take away is: at this level, champions don't make mistakes.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup [Re: Wouter] #233740
06/19/11 03:07 PM
06/19/11 03:07 PM
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oxj Offline
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Originally Posted by Wouter

Right on Helen,

Quote

It is interesting to note that in the top 5 places there were 3 all guys teams, 1 all girls, and 1 mixed team. Really shows the versatility of the Viper



And another proof is in that racing the Viper / F16's is fair to a wide range of crew weights.

So much for gut-feelings that such a boat will enormously favour featherweights. It simply doesn't. Are you paying attention Mark ?

Wouter


You couldn't be more wrong on this one.

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