| Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: oxj]
#233699 06/18/11 08:57 AM 06/18/11 08:57 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | One of the challenges with the F16 is that it seems to have a very large 'optimal' crew weight range. The optimal weight greatly depends on the conditions. The lighter the crew the sooner they're trapping and able to sail much higher and faster than the heavier teams. On the flip side, when the wind gets over 10kts the '260 teams' become at a disadvantage which only grows as the wind picks up. To some extent this applies to most cats, but it really seems magnified on the F16 due to the variations in speed it is capable of producing. World Class helms like Carolijn Brewer can sail light and minimize the disadvantage as the wind builds (see last years Euro results). You also see this effect when single handers are sailing in that 6 to 10 knot range. They are just fast. Should it make it through the ISAF trials... I predict the Olympic fleet will settle on light ... (set the boat up for the lulls)
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: oxj]
#233702 06/18/11 11:30 AM 06/18/11 11:30 AM |
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,490 On the Water P.M.
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Posts: 2,490 On the Water | Can't tell if Newberry got a 7 or 9 in that race. 9 . . . . and FLUSHED.
Philip USA #1006 | | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: Jake]
#233704 06/18/11 01:30 PM 06/18/11 01:30 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | Nothing from today? The top three spots are very close!
Make that top four...
Last edited by pgp; 06/18/11 01:32 PM.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: pgp]
#233705 06/18/11 01:49 PM 06/18/11 01:49 PM |
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 127 Rock Hill,SC KevinRejda OP
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Posts: 127 Rock Hill,SC | On the beach in Long Beach. Already seeing about 9 knots, getting set for a noon start. Gonna' try to get 4 heats off today, that will make an 11 race series. Only 3 teams have yet to be flushed; Pitt/Pitt, Guiliano/Guiliano, and Struble/Lacasella.
Last edited by KevinRejda; 06/18/11 01:50 PM.
Kevin Rejda Rock Hill, SC
| | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#233706 06/18/11 01:57 PM 06/18/11 01:57 PM |
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 52 oxj
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Posts: 52 | One of the challenges with the F16 is that it seems to have a very large 'optimal' crew weight range. The optimal weight greatly depends on the conditions. The lighter the crew the sooner they're trapping and able to sail much higher and faster than the heavier teams. On the flip side, when the wind gets over 10kts the '260 teams' become at a disadvantage which only grows as the wind picks up. To some extent this applies to most cats, but it really seems magnified on the F16 due to the variations in speed it is capable of producing. World Class helms like Carolijn Brewer can sail light and minimize the disadvantage as the wind builds (see last years Euro results). You also see this effect when single handers are sailing in that 6 to 10 knot range. They are just fast. Should it make it through the ISAF trials... I predict the Olympic fleet will settle on light ... (set the boat up for the lulls) Mark, It doesn't matter who the sailor is. All the Olympic tornado teams were extremely close in terms of boat speed and maneuvers. Interestingly, even on the Tornado the crew weight differences we're obvious from light to heavy weather conditions. On the F16 that weight sensitivity is magnified. Sailing at 260lbs in 12kts is a definite disadvantage against a team at 310lbs and a huge advantage in 6-8kts. But if all teams are around 260-280 then it really doesn't matter. Problem arises when teams try to optimize their weight for the anticipated wind conditions (look at the things teams did for China). The racing becomes more about guessing the correct weight instead of the sailing. | | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: pgp]
#233708 06/18/11 03:18 PM 06/18/11 03:18 PM |
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,490 On the Water P.M.
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Posts: 2,490 On the Water | Wow. What a last day for the championship. Looks like 3 teams have the best chance to win it, one a co-ed team, and another a youth team. Newberry will have an (at best) 11 in race 10. So . . . after 9 races Struble has a 3 point lead over Reiss, 4 point lead over Pitt. Getting that 4th race in today could mean everything. And I expect Newberry mixing it up in Race 11,12,13? and could provide the total points separation between the first and second overall leaders in a spoiler. Damn exciting!
Philip USA #1006 | | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: P.M.]
#233714 06/18/11 07:39 PM 06/18/11 07:39 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | No updates? Should be over by now.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: P.M.]
#233719 06/18/11 09:31 PM 06/18/11 09:31 PM |
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,490 On the Water P.M.
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Posts: 2,490 On the Water | Final Results here. If this is correct, Congratulations to the Champion Matt Struble/ Damon Lacasella with a one point lead over Taylor Reiss/ Matthew Whitehead. A HUGE congratulations to Taylor and Matthew for an outstanding finish. Looking forward to hearing the details.
Philip USA #1006 | | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: David Ingram]
#233722 06/19/11 12:53 AM 06/19/11 12:53 AM |
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 127 Rock Hill,SC KevinRejda OP
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Posts: 127 Rock Hill,SC | Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!!! Dave Ingram called this one. Wish you coulda' been here Dave, this place rocks! JC has this one wrapped up.
who's the bookie for this event? I'll take some of that action. As much as I'd like to see our local boys take the gold Struble is taking this one.
Last edited by KevinRejda; 06/19/11 01:06 AM.
Kevin Rejda Rock Hill, SC
| | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: Helen (AHPC)]
#233725 06/19/11 04:17 AM 06/19/11 04:17 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Right on Helen, It is interesting to note that in the top 5 places there were 3 all guys teams, 1 all girls, and 1 mixed team. Really shows the versatility of the Viper
And another proof is in that racing the Viper / F16's is fair to a wide range of crew weights. So much for gut-feelings that such a boat will enormously favour featherweights. It simply doesn't. Are you paying attention Mark ? Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: Wouter]
#233726 06/19/11 04:19 AM 06/19/11 04:19 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Congrats to the winners and many thanks to the organisors and boatsuppliers !
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: Wouter]
#233730 06/19/11 09:07 AM 06/19/11 09:07 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | So much for gut-feelings that such a boat will enormously favour featherweights. It simply doesn't. Are you paying attention Mark ?
Wouter
Are you kidding me... Strubble has a world championship on his resume.... The ladies don't. Struble commented about the weight issue and how problematic it was for them. OJX put it well about the unique nature of the F16 designs.. One more minor point on the issue, the F16's are weight sensitive in a very very different way then say a Hobie 16 or a Dart 18. IF ISAF picks an F16 flavor, the Olympic fleet will land on the weight range that gets them qualified and to the games. The range will be similar to previous Olympic fleets +/- 10 to 15 pounds and the mean will be on the low end relative to Men's or Open classes. The boat should drop out of the equation. If it doesn't... it would be a terrible Olympic choice.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: KevinRejda]
#233731 06/19/11 09:58 AM 06/19/11 09:58 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | I don't suppose any weights were taken.
It seems to me weight was NOT an issue and would only become an issue if the wind was constant throughout the series.
My take away is: at this level, champions don't make mistakes.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: 2011 US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup
[Re: Wouter]
#233740 06/19/11 03:07 PM 06/19/11 03:07 PM |
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 52 oxj
journeyman
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Posts: 52 | Right on Helen, It is interesting to note that in the top 5 places there were 3 all guys teams, 1 all girls, and 1 mixed team. Really shows the versatility of the Viper
And another proof is in that racing the Viper / F16's is fair to a wide range of crew weights. So much for gut-feelings that such a boat will enormously favour featherweights. It simply doesn't. Are you paying attention Mark ? Wouter You couldn't be more wrong on this one. | | |
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