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by northsea junkie. 03/12/20 08:13 AM
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Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: David Ingram] #233892
06/21/11 12:35 PM
06/21/11 12:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
<********! Well, until Mary finds out then it's party over.


****! Is the language filter not working?

.
.
.
.

poop...I guess it is still working.

Jake Kohl
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: TeamChums] #233893
06/21/11 12:48 PM
06/21/11 12:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 72
Rockledge Cay, FL
Fearless_Rider Offline
journeyman
Fearless_Rider  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 72
Rockledge Cay, FL
Originally Posted by TeamChums
I'm getting some popcorn now.


Got my 3-d glasses on for the show!

[Linked Image]



BTW, my BBQ Rocks!
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: Fearless_Rider] #233894
06/21/11 02:25 PM
06/21/11 02:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by Fearless_Rider
I've been watching this issue for some time now with quite a keen interest. In the not too distant future a new main and spinnaker is to be purchased.

Where to go, what to buy?

Easy answers (?) NACRA or EP directly...
I have an aftermarket spinnaker from Whirlwind which is fantastically built and I use for non racing fun times.

N20 637


EP directly is not class legal either, the factory has to get their cut. EP direct would be aftermarket and would most likely be cheaper. So again to the folks who think it will cost more, How will it cost more?

And I still ,seriously, would like to know how many regattas had a N-20 class start. It has to be more than just Spring Fever and performance nationals.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #233895
06/21/11 02:31 PM
06/21/11 02:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Tradewinds.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: David Ingram] #233896
06/21/11 02:36 PM
06/21/11 02:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline
old hand
Mike Hill  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Performance Midwinters in Pensacola.


Mike Hill
N20 #1005
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: Mike Hill] #233897
06/21/11 03:08 PM
06/21/11 03:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
Slip 2 Ship

Note: Two boats chose to race with aftermarket sails and were excluded from the N20 class, and scored in the open spin fleet.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: P.M.] #233898
06/21/11 03:12 PM
06/21/11 03:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
Not sure but I think The Sea Bouy had a class, as well as Juana's.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: Mike Hill] #233900
06/21/11 03:29 PM
06/21/11 03:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
didn't the N20 fleet go through something like this with the rudders? Did they not eventually accept a different design, with positive feedback from the class (I still like the old ones, but that's because I never was that fast)

I sailed both light and heavy teams on that boat, but always thought there was a bit too much draft in the main (maybe it was just my main 279 & 501). Maybe it was because we could never flatten it out as well as I could on the 18s.

I never figured out which spin cut worked best but I wasn't much into endurance racing (T-500, Worrell, GT300).

I think the consensus is that there is nothing much wrong with the platform the way it is, but minor changes in the sailplan could noticably improve the sailing parameters. Am I correct?

Are these new cuts so much faster that the original designs would totally be skunked if sailed against each other?

Of those individuals who have dropped big money on various sails/recuts, would they be willing to share their data to help the "class" properly evaluate a change in sailplan specs?

Is the class trying to "regain" the moniker of fastest production beachcat? Or just trying to make the boat easier and more affordable to operate?



Jay

Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: waterbug_wpb] #233902
06/21/11 04:19 PM
06/21/11 04:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
old hand
pitchpoledave  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
Has anyone tried the Performance Sails from Netherlands?

Last edited by pitchpoledave; 06/21/11 04:19 PM.
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: pitchpoledave] #233903
06/21/11 04:28 PM
06/21/11 04:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 267
Ocean Springs, MS
Capt_Cardiac Offline
enthusiast
Capt_Cardiac  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 267
Ocean Springs, MS
you mean the performance sails on the Aluminum mast? SMOD right?


Capt Cardiac
Ocean Springs Yacht Club
Sailor
Nacra20 - Flight of Ideas #5
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: waterbug_wpb] #233905
06/21/11 04:40 PM
06/21/11 04:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline OP
veteran
TeamChums  Offline OP
veteran

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
The idea behind my original post was to let N20 owners know that this spin was a great deal better than the original and where they could get it. Plus some feedback from youguys about going this route.

There really is no more "top talent" in this class anyway, they've all gone to F18, aside from some of the distance racers like Steve Lohmyer and Jay Sonlenkar.

Last edited by TeamChums; 06/21/11 04:43 PM.

Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: waterbug_wpb] #233906
06/21/11 04:42 PM
06/21/11 04:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 267
Ocean Springs, MS
Capt_Cardiac Offline
enthusiast
Capt_Cardiac  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 267
Ocean Springs, MS
Schurr Sails in Pensacola has at least 3 versions of mains and spins. Jib is the same cut. Getting the specs would be as easy as asking the new owners, Mark Smith and Ken Altman. There is nothing to hide. I don't think there will be any success in coming up with a unified acceptance of a new sail. Keep the size of the sails the same and play with their design to maximize their efficiency.



Capt Cardiac
Ocean Springs Yacht Club
Sailor
Nacra20 - Flight of Ideas #5
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #233907
06/21/11 04:44 PM
06/21/11 04:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 267
Ocean Springs, MS
Capt_Cardiac Offline
enthusiast
Capt_Cardiac  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 267
Ocean Springs, MS
In regards to SMOD:
3 sets of rudders, at least 2 different self tacking jibs, 2 masts, 2+ mast rotators, EP sails, Performance Europe sails, what else. I know the list is longer...


Capt Cardiac
Ocean Springs Yacht Club
Sailor
Nacra20 - Flight of Ideas #5
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #233908
06/21/11 05:01 PM
06/21/11 05:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by Capt_Cardiac
In regards to SMOD:
3 sets of rudders, at least 2 different self tacking jibs, 2 masts, 2+ mast rotators, EP sails, Performance Europe sails, what else. I know the list is longer...

3 different spinnaker launching systems, 2 different booms,
3 different trampolines,...

And amazingly enough all those last gen mods(except the tramp) ended up on the Infusion. Ya think we were being used as a test bed or guinea pig, nah they wouldn't do that,(insert sarcastic smiley here)would they? R&D at our expense with full benefit to another class.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #233915
06/22/11 05:24 AM
06/22/11 05:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
old hand
pepin  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
For what's it's worth:

There are two Nacra 20 at my club. Both of them with new sails. None of the sail branded with any Performance logo. The reason? Well, the Performance sails are almost twice more expensive than an excellent sail from a reputed sailmaker...

The right way to do this is to amend your class rules to authorize some other sails. Ask some reputed sailmakers for sample, try them out, pick the best and make it the class sail people can buy. Repeat the process every 3-4 years and you're done. Kind of like what they are doing with the Tornado.

Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #233924
06/22/11 08:45 AM
06/22/11 08:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever

3 different spinnaker launching systems, 2 different booms,
3 different trampolines,...

And amazingly enough all those last gen mods(except the tramp) ended up on the Infusion. Ya think we were being used as a test bed or guinea pig, nah they wouldn't do that,(insert sarcastic smiley here)would they? R&D at our expense with full benefit to another class.


Todd, your paranoia is making you sound a lot like someone else we know.

You know the tramp was changed to address the problem of the tramp pulling out of the track and was happily accepted by the class (by most). The jib track was changed beause the Tiger had a better solution and NACRA ripped it off. So technically the F18 class did the R&D on that one.

3 different laucher systems? I only remember two, anyway the T guys were showing us the midpole was the way to go so all the other spin enabled classes jumped on it, the T class gets credit for that one. Besides the carbon endpole snuffer was $1000 just for the pole, the midpole solution is a whole lot less $$ and a better solution (good thing, right?)

Now the rudders. The gen 2 rudders were spefically created for the NACRA F18 because you couldn't stear the boat with gen 1 rudders. The gen 3 rudders were again created for the NACRA F18 basically to follow what the Tiger and Cap were doing. So again, R&D credit F18, benifit N20. Personally the gen 1 rudders on the N20 are perfect! It's tough to find a more powered up better balanced rig than the N20 and if you're having problem changing direction with the gen 1 rudders on the N20 it aint the rudders fault.

Mornin Sunshine.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: David Ingram] #233929
06/22/11 09:25 AM
06/22/11 09:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
I thought his point was ... WHY STOP NOW.... don't pull the OD is god card.

You expect rudders to last the lifetime of the boat and in a manufacture class you would not expect to upgrade ... But you did. You expect to change racing sails every three years... SO WHY STOP NOW when all of the High Tech race boats continue to evolve!


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: David Ingram] #233942
06/22/11 01:28 PM
06/22/11 01:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
<**** and alot of other folks either don't see it or are OK with it.

Dingusoldmanius, did you get your Infusion Mk2 yet? I guess, let me know when you sell your C-2. wink smirk


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #233948
06/22/11 04:27 PM
06/22/11 04:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
do they make new N20's or is this a custom-type order? Since they don't really "die" (pretty much could be said for all plastic boats these days), are you trying to build the class by resurrecting inactive boats, or generate enough demand to resume manufacture?


Jay

Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #233949
06/22/11 04:38 PM
06/22/11 04:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
No dog in the fight, but... why not jump in?? ;-)

As someone who is shopping sail makers for a ~25m^2 spinnaker now, I can say that a better kite can easily be had with an up to date shape for a couple hundred less than the OD I/N20 sails.

Hobie got it right with their F18 sails. Those sails are made in Europe and field tested in world class events. If the boat doesn't win, people don't buy. If the sails suck, the platform suffers. Here, the N20 is all alone since there isn't an official F20 class. For those that mention the EU N20 sails for the N20, they're different sizes (smaller) than the US sails. (that may have changed?... will have to look) So, if the class is booming, who cares a/b the sails so long as you're OD b/c everyone is "the same". "The same" b/c they weren't, some were good, some weren't as much...

It's not like it was ~5 years ago, more of us have to play in the same sand box which validates this argument b/c of handicapping. I don't know if it would be a death nail like it was for the P19/MX, the platform is much better than that boat, however it's also quite a ways down the road to meeting it's maker....

p.s. I thought the gen 2 rudders were replaced b/c they couldn't cope with the CRAZY rake that were were throwing at them? I mean, a measurement half way down the blade was middle of the road.... ;-)

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