Can anybody enlighten us. He did not start his last race (21). Beuller?

Maybe Krantz indeed predicted this one. . . .

Because it wouldn't have made a difference. His best score would have been 11 and would still be his throwout.

Would you score two boats that were OCS 9's or 10's?

A4.2 A boat that did not start, did not finish, retired after finishing or was disqualified shall be scored points for the finishing place one more than the number of boats entered in the series. A boat that is penalized under rule 30.2 or that takes a penalty under rule 44.3(a) shall be scored points as provided in rule 44.3(c).

OCS is the same thing as DNS.

..

Fair enough....

I think that one up versus two up data will have more impact on a new class but OK...

The only interesting issue to me would be... is the F16 package more or less weight sensitive relative to an F18 design.... Is the F16 design more or less weight sensitive relative to a Tornado. Is the F16 more or less weight sensitive to the F18HT.

So, you would need all four data sets. Holding the rig constant as in the Alter cup eliminates a variable but what I want to know is ... how fair the package will be in Beufort 2 to 4 winds and what is the crew weight range and median.

IMO, the lightweight two man boats (M20's,F18HT's and F16's) behave a bit differently then the heavyweight two man boats (F18, N20's and Tornadoes).

(PS... with all of the android and apple phones in the world... How come we don't have an app that allows you to enter some sail numbers (voice or keyboard) and tap them as they cross the line and put the data directly into your scoring program... This app would definitely solve RC hedaches)

Tough series. The winner wins without a bullet and second place wins with 5 bullets missing by 1 point.

The old thowout race for every 5 races would have changed things. (10 vs 4) Consistency!

or the old 3/4 of a point for a bullet would have changed the winner by a 1/4 of a point.

The old Olympic scoring would have changed the results also in favor of the boys.

I'd say consistency was the key.

If you look at the results, most of the races he got 3rd place, even in winds that would favor the heavier crews of 16kts, he got a 2nd. In theory, with all of this weight sensitive stuff going around, he should have gotten a 1st, but it went to Taylor and Matthew. Or does Taylor and Matthew weigh less than Struble?

Again, no one has even guessed how much the teams weight, I'm sure there are enough people on this board who can guess on half of these teams weight, but no one wants to pipe up.

What's the deal with that, are you afraid of something?

Are you afraid of been proven wrong?

If you also notice at the full results, it has at what speed the winds were in each race.

We can deduce a lot of different things by the results. From what I can tell, the teams that have the skills, can over come some of the weight sensitivity issues that a lot of you perceive here.

Mark has the right idea though, is the F16 design more or less weight sensitive than the other boats. There's a spectrum here, just like the F18's. But, it seems everytime the F16's do a race, the weight issue always comes up from someone, WHY? Are you afraid to admit something?

Here's what I'll admit to...

The F16's have an all around competitive weight of about 285 to 320'ish. 320 is pushing it, but it can be done. If you are getting on either side of that by too many lbs, there will be a disadvantages on both sides of the wind spectrum. I'll also admit, that if the F16 does some how get selected for the Olympics, that the limits will be pushed one way or the other. That will depend on the teams. Mark and Macca could be correct in that if they get chosen you will see the teams be feather weights. So what, at least I'll admit to it that that could happen.

Can anyone else admit to something here? Or am I the only one who is being honest with themselves?


Mike

I admit nothing!

I admit that Mike has had too much coffee this morning !!

Consistency won. Taylor/Matt are damn good on the F16 and had good practice time on the same waters and boat (cut down main?) the week before. They are very skilled and proved that they can sail in light and high winds. I was not there and do not know the circumstances but 1 bad luck/lost focused race flushed them and was the difference between the Cup and 2nd. There were other recognizable F16 teams that had consistency issues also that would have been in the hunt otherwise. They would do well in the lighter wind races but would have 1 or 2 poor results in similar winds. If anything, the way to NOT win is to get flushed.

Whatever the case, they are all great sailors and I am lucky anytime I get to compete (I use the term loosely) against any of the competitors at the event.

Cut down main? No. Club sails were left in Florida.

JC's take on the front page of SA today.

JC's SA post definitely hints that he sees a favor towards light sailors in light conditions (duh), but really, would you expect different. If its light air light sailors will always do better. I really don't see the point / worry to this.

Olympic sailors, with their federations behind them will investigate the prevailing winds for the Olympic venue and will decide on their weight and hit that target no matter what boat they choose. Look at China for an example of expected light air and a bunch of starving Laser sailors (also as an example of how hard weather predicting can be...). Sure the boat has a range, probably between 280 and 330 combine, much like the F18 has a range of somewhere between 300 - 360 (pulling these out of my hat, don't quote me on those) and if you are off either end you you suffer in respective conditions, so does a laser, a Finn, a 49er, etc etc.

Just don't get the point of this weight discussion. The olympic boat should be based on junior development abilities, quality of build, technicality of sailing the boat, ability for the most countries to compete, etc etc. Let the athletes (and their coaches) decide what works. Unlike most weekend warriors, they will go to the gym, hit the bike, row the machine until they are the right size for whatever boat and venue gets chosen. It's all part of the game.

/end rant

my 3 cents

Everything you say is spot on. But there is something else.

Personally, I think the lite boats offer new challenges to sail relative to a heavyweight boat because where,how and when,you move your weight is bigger factor in making the boat go. (At the last trials, the Olympic sailors raved about the M20's speed and responsiveness as being a real challenge)

What some of us are speculating is that the F16 is a bit more sensitive to total weight WITHIN it's range then say an F18. The race results, fleet experience and JC's report support this conclusion.

It will take an Olympic level fleet to figure out if the lite weight boats are more sensitive to weight in their design range and by how much.

WOW! 230 lb team in 5-7 kts of wind is going to be tough to beat on almost any beachcat! Though it is a huge disadvantage to the heavier teams once the wind picks up with the F16 sailplan and many other beachcats.

Just for clarity relative to USF16 Class. Pete stepped down as class president in April and the Alter Cup was conducted under Viper Class rules.

For Nigel it was a redress situation. They had trouble with the spinnaker halyard. Unfortunately, they rounded the leeward mark in ninth so that is all the Judges could do for them.

They were just about to shove off the beach for the last race, but decided that going home with a full deposit was a good idea and it would not have changed their score.

We had the boat they were supposed to use for the last race and had all kinds of spin halyard problems so it would have been really frustrating if it happened to them in back to back races.

Sarah and Elizabeth did not have poor performance because of high wind. I think they got a bad start. Some of the races were only about 20 minutes long so you had to be on it.

Interesting observation that isn't apparent in the cold hard facts of race results.

Damon and I were 340 lbs. The F-16 is a great boat, but a weight range of 260 - 300 sounds more like it to me. Being heavy we suffered in the light air and the heavy air. The most impressive sailing angle of the boat to me, was how hard you could sail it down wind.

Matt

340 is a lot! Very impressive performance.

Anyone else care to list their weight?

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