Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: Tony_F18] #237566
09/14/11 09:46 AM
09/14/11 09:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172
Anacortes
Sloansailing Offline
member
Sloansailing  Offline
member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172
Anacortes
Hobbles are usually short pieces of line fixed to a point on the boat with a shackle that attach to a loop spliced into the jib sheet, to facilitate transferring one sheet to the winch from another. Its quite common on large race boats. Saves the weight/complexity of another winch. Didn't you ever wonder how a TP52 can have only 5 winches? Even on the 65'er I sail we use hobbles to get the kite sheet on the primary winch during a set, and we have 11 winches.


Anacortes Rigging.com
Rigging and Yacht Services
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: Sloansailing] #237570
09/14/11 10:08 AM
09/14/11 10:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Man Oracle is sucking today.

Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: ThunderMuffin] #237768
09/17/11 09:06 AM
09/17/11 09:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
to all the monoslug sailors who said cats can't match race. SUCK IT. that was awesome. Go the White Tiger!


Jake Kohl
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: Jake] #237770
09/17/11 09:49 AM
09/17/11 09:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Charlie! No! I once went through a downwind gate the wrong way but I had been sailing for 8 months!


Jake Kohl
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: Jake] #237775
09/17/11 06:43 PM
09/17/11 06:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
jollyrodgers Offline
enthusiast
jollyrodgers  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
i hope you guys don't mind me chiming in here.
i keep see these monohull sailors that have the helm of these big cats trying to tack safe leeward. In the first match race on Saturday 9/17, Artemis had the room to cross, shut the door on Korea and lay the mark. Instead they tacked safe leeward, which is really hard to make work on a cat, then they failed to lay the mark, had an extra tack to do, and they got sent out to opposite/wrong side of the course. Korea didn't get covered, and picked up a nice shift, gust or whatever, and totally destroyed Artemis.
Seems to me Artemis guys, as awesome as they are, need to employ some primitive Hobie racing tactics from time to time.
"if you're not first you're last" -Reese Bobby in "Taledega Nights"

Last edited by jollyrodgers; 09/17/11 06:48 PM.
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: jollyrodgers] #237776
09/17/11 07:38 PM
09/17/11 07:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
explain "tack safe leeward"

Originally Posted by jollyrodgers
i hope you guys don't mind me chiming in here.
i keep see these monohull sailors that have the helm of these big cats trying to tack safe leeward. In the first match race on Saturday 9/17, Artemis had the room to cross, shut the door on Korea and lay the mark. Instead they tacked safe leeward, which is really hard to make work on a cat, then they failed to lay the mark, had an extra tack to do, and they got sent out to opposite/wrong side of the course. Korea didn't get covered, and picked up a nice shift, gust or whatever, and totally destroyed Artemis.
Seems to me Artemis guys, as awesome as they are, need to employ some primitive Hobie racing tactics from time to time.
"if you're not first you're last" -Reese Bobby in "Taledega Nights"

Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: PTP] #237777
09/17/11 07:53 PM
09/17/11 07:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by PTP
explain "tack safe leeward"

Tacking just ahead and to leeward of your competitor while heading upwind so they're on your hip. It's a tactic used quite often in monohull racing to force your opponent to tack away, since they can't live in your dirty air.

The problem with doing it in catamarans is that you have to initiate the tack so far ahead, you might as well cross and/or it gives your opponent an opportunity to pinch up out of your dirty air before you get going.

T-Hutch has been racing big multis (ESS) for a while. He knows better.

Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: PTP] #237784
09/18/11 10:01 AM
09/18/11 10:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by PTP
explain "tack safe leeward"

Originally Posted by jollyrodgers
i hope you guys don't mind me chiming in here.
i keep see these monohull sailors that have the helm of these big cats trying to tack safe leeward. In the first match race on Saturday 9/17, Artemis had the room to cross, shut the door on Korea and lay the mark. Instead they tacked safe leeward, which is really hard to make work on a cat, then they failed to lay the mark, had an extra tack to do, and they got sent out to opposite/wrong side of the course. Korea didn't get covered, and picked up a nice shift, gust or whatever, and totally destroyed Artemis.
Seems to me Artemis guys, as awesome as they are, need to employ some primitive Hobie racing tactics from time to time.
"if you're not first you're last" -Reese Bobby in "Taledega Nights"


It's called "lee bow" here in the states. In my opinion, it can be done on cats but the apparent wind is so far forward due to the increased speed and the dirty air (bent and/or piled up air to windward) of the cat is much less than in a slower monohull. As Matt indicated, to pull this off on a cat in a match race is to give up a lot of lead you would otherwise have had if you just held your course. It is sometimes beneficial in a fleet race if you have someone on your hip but this position is usually a consequence of some prior positioning issue you had with another boat further ahead of the one on your hip.

I'm seeing a lot of issues on these boats that we experience with A) having a lot to do with only a few hands and B) being amatures. Coutt's screw up with the genny sheet was a result of poor house keeping in between and prior to maneuvers. I don't know how Ogletree missed that gate to begin with and how they didn't realize their mistake when they were between the two gate boats. I'm not saying I would do better! Just pointing out that this is a lot of new stuff to everyone involved.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: Jake] #237789
09/18/11 07:32 PM
09/18/11 07:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
To those who watched the carnage today. How can the commentators state that greencom was on port when the other boat hit them? Looks like greencom was sort of camping out on starboard and then the other boat (think it was artemis) came up and tried to duck their sterns and missed.
Aside from that, who is the female commentator?

Last edited by PTP; 09/18/11 07:33 PM.
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: PTP] #237792
09/18/11 11:37 PM
09/18/11 11:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Todd_Sails  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Is that Carrie Howe? (female commentator)


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: PTP] #237808
09/19/11 11:23 AM
09/19/11 11:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I
Isotope235 Offline
old hand
Isotope235  Offline
old hand
I

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
Originally Posted by PTP
How can the commentators state that greencom was on port when the other boat hit them? Looks like greencom was sort of camping out on starboard and then the other boat (think it was artemis) came up and tried to duck their sterns and missed.

It's difficult to tell much given the very brief snip of video leading up to the collision. I do, however, notice that just before contact, Greencom's jib is flapping nearly straight back, all aboard are facing forward and trimming, and that the helmsman changes sides. The wing is fairly loose and the rudders are over to starboard. Therefore, it looks to me like Greencom is changing course (heading up). Artemis tries to duck but is unsuccessful.

The force of contact spins Greencom around, and causes her wing and jib to flip to the starboard side. Therefore, just after the collision, Greencom has the appearance of being on port tack. That might be why the commentator said she was on port.

Regards,
Eric

Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: Isotope235] #237811
09/19/11 12:06 PM
09/19/11 12:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
addict
sail7seas  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
Looks like GC tacked in front of AR (GC third from left of attachment), and AR choose to go below rather than above GC.

Attached Files
Ply4.JPG (223 downloads)
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: sail7seas] #237812
09/19/11 12:15 PM
09/19/11 12:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Was there a penalty or redress for either of them? I'd need to see more video (or hear more testimony) to make an informed decision.

Mike

Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: PTP] #237813
09/19/11 12:22 PM
09/19/11 12:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by PTP
Aside from that, who is the female commentator?
Annie Gardner (Nelson). Long-time Hobie sailor, among other things.

Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: brucat] #237814
09/19/11 12:27 PM
09/19/11 12:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by brucat
Was there a penalty or redress for either of them? I'd need to see more video (or hear more testimony) to make an informed decision.

Mike

Greencomm was assessed a penalty, but then they were tagged (again) by Aleph. A bit more seriously that time:
[Linked Image]
That's the reason they headed back in, not the collision with Artemis.

Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: mbounds] #237815
09/19/11 12:44 PM
09/19/11 12:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
that last fleet race was what needs to be marketed to the non-sailing crowd. Lots of action, plenty of lead changes, crashes/spills, etc. The bow-cam shot of ENTZ and O-5 with less than 2 meters spacing and both hauling the mail at 30 kph should get the blood pumping on anyone...


Jay

Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: waterbug_wpb] #237820
09/19/11 01:17 PM
09/19/11 01:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Did GC right their boat without assistance?


Jake Kohl
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: Jake] #237824
09/19/11 02:51 PM
09/19/11 02:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by Jake
Did GC right their boat without assistance?

I don't think they flipped.

Energy Team flipped pre-start and righted in less than 3 minutes - using a water-start technique. I was impressed.

China Team flipped at the first mark.

Artemis flipped mid-race after what looked like a spectacular save. They went over on the drag of the sails alone.

Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: mbounds] #237826
09/19/11 03:01 PM
09/19/11 03:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Annie Nelson?! Wow, that's awesome.

I was away at a regatta this weekend, haven't really caught up. Looks like I missed a good day!

Mike

Re: AC 45s at Plymouth [Re: sail7seas] #237835
09/19/11 04:58 PM
09/19/11 04:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
you guys see this?
http://americascup.virtualeye.tv/
go to historical, then fleet race, then camera

sweet, you can look from above at Greencom and see what happened

Last edited by PTP; 09/19/11 04:59 PM.
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 483 guests, and 78 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,405
Posts267,056
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1