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Main Halyard Lock/Downhaul #237785
09/18/11 04:45 PM
09/18/11 04:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 402
Punta Gorda, FL
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jkkartz1 Offline OP
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Punta Gorda, FL
I've had the pleasure of crewing on a Stiletto 27 the past few years. Our racing results have been modest to say the most.

Today we sailed a club race here on Charlotte Harbor. We were the only multihull, so we started with a mixed monohull fleet. As usual, we were slugs going upwind. We were out pointed by 15 degrees with similar speed to a Morgan 24 sailed by a very good sailor. A Harbor 20 (I'm holding my tounge the best I can)that started 5 minutes after us beat us to the 1 mile weather mark.

The big problem I see is with the lack of a secure main halyard lock so that downhaul tension can be applied.

When we hoist the main sail it does not appear to reach full hoist and then when the downhaul (5 to 1) the sail starts sliding down. By the time the race is to start I check the downhaul and it is slack. So I tighten it but it has run out of travel.

The sails are some sort of Quantam (Why?) squaretop, yellow string sails.
The difficult problem is explaining to the skipper how important it is to have a secure halyard lock and how the down haul affects the sail going upwind.

The skipper is a retired Ford engineer so a technical discussion is welcome.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Main Halyard Lock/Downhaul [Re: jkkartz1] #237816
09/19/11 11:47 AM
09/19/11 11:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 975
South Louisiana, USA
Clayton Offline
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Clayton  Offline
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I don't have any trouble with my Halyard slipping on my Stiletto. How is it held? Normally its a wire/rope halyard. Maybe the line is not the proper type for a halyard and its creeping? First you need to get full hoist, if it doesn't there is a problem right there that will limit downhaul length. Make sure everything is loose, mainsheet, downhaul, outhaul. Even a small amount of resistance will keep you from getting full hoist.

Also, you need to foot off, do not try to point with the monos, not going to happen especially with the stock daggerboard.

Which (who's) Stiletto are you sailing on? Just curious.

Clayton

Last edited by Clayton; 09/19/11 11:50 AM.
Re: Main Halyard Lock/Downhaul [Re: Clayton] #237819
09/19/11 12:04 PM
09/19/11 12:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Naples, FL
agree. never try to point with a monohull, or you'll go just as slow. Foot away to gain speed/apparant wind and then work your way back up

Are you indicating that the rope clutch is slipping, causing the main to slide down, or is the halyard itself stretching/creeping once a load (downhaul) is applied?


Jay

Re: Main Halyard Lock/Downhaul [Re: waterbug_wpb] #237821
09/19/11 12:28 PM
09/19/11 12:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 402
Punta Gorda, FL
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jkkartz1 Offline OP
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Pete Welch's "Inflight".

We will miss the Buzzelli race this year (BUMMER).

The problem probably is the main halyard stretching/creeping. How long is the halyard line from the wire rope to the opening in the mast? Can a halyard lock be added to the masthead without too mush trouble?

We cannot and do not try to point with them, but we are not even close upwind. The Morgan 24 pointed about 15 degrees higher and without a spinaker finished a 3.6 mile course in 1hr 9 min. We started at the same time as the M24 and with our spin finished in 1hr 19mins.

Without having the main halyard locked at the masthead we cannot apply any downhaul and in my eye, the main looks like used oats.

I need some ammunition to explain to the skipper how important locking the halyard is. He came from sailing a Hunter and does not fully understand cats.

Re: Main Halyard Lock/Downhaul [Re: jkkartz1] #237830
09/19/11 02:40 PM
09/19/11 02:40 PM
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Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
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Houston
Smaller Cats require a method of attaching the sail to the top of the mast due mast weight/stiffness concerns. The Stiletto mast is in the stiffness range where this is not a big concern.

From your description your halyard/downhaul does not appear to be working correctly. If you are pulling the sail down with a 5:1 downhaul, the sail should not slide down the mast and it should never stay in that position with a slack downhaul The first thing I would look at is the halyard stretch, then whatever cleats the halyard, then is the main halyard wrapped or crossed with another line allows sail to slide down over time and finally climb the mast hoist the sail, apply downhaul and look at how the halyard runs over the sheave.

Re: Main Halyard Lock/Downhaul [Re: jkkartz1] #237831
09/19/11 02:46 PM
09/19/11 02:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 975
South Louisiana, USA
Clayton Offline
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I've never seen/heard of a Stiletto main halyard locked at the masthead. Not sure how you do that. But, with the right halyard you shouldn't need to. Are you sure its the halyard moving or is the sail needing attention? Again, how is the halyard secured? Standard setup is a cleat just below the exit point on the mast but I have seen it go thru a rope clutch instead. Either works without any trouble.

Clayton

Re: Main Halyard Lock/Downhaul [Re: jkkartz1] #237832
09/19/11 02:51 PM
09/19/11 02:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Naples, FL
Originally Posted by jkkartz1
I need some ammunition to explain to the skipper how important locking the halyard is. He came from sailing a Hunter and does not fully understand cats.


Surely even Hunters benefit from good sail shape/shape control? How do the telltales read when the sail is in this state?

I suspect deep draft from slack downhaul is probably not necessary and is generating a lot of drag, which would slow forward progress unnecessarily.


Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 09/19/11 02:56 PM.

Jay

Re: Main Halyard Lock/Downhaul [Re: jkkartz1] #238255
09/23/11 12:23 PM
09/23/11 12:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 402
Punta Gorda, FL
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jkkartz1 Offline OP
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I picked up a new halyard from Stiletto today. It probably will not get installed until next weekend. I pulled a single and double block from the stash and will attempt to engineer up a 3 to 1 to pull on the existing halyard.

We'll see.

Re: Main Halyard Lock/Downhaul [Re: jkkartz1] #238260
09/23/11 12:50 PM
09/23/11 12:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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Another option is to set a 2:1 halyard.

Mine comes out the mast, goes through a Tlaska H8 on the head of the sail, and terminates back at the masthead.

The only downside is that you have to double your halyard length, but it accomplishes reducing the clutch load in half.

-M

Re: Main Halyard Lock/Downhaul [Re: mikekrantz] #238267
09/23/11 02:35 PM
09/23/11 02:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Originally Posted by mikekrantz
Another option is to set a 2:1 halyard.

Mine comes out the mast, goes through a Tlaska H8 on the head of the sail, and terminates back at the masthead.

The only downside is that you have to double your halyard length, but it accomplishes reducing the clutch load in half.

-M


The quick way to get an invite on Mike's R33 is to offer to hoist the main!
smile

Re: Main Halyard Lock/Downhaul [Re: ThunderMuffin] #238322
09/26/11 07:43 AM
09/26/11 07:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 975
South Louisiana, USA
Clayton Offline
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Clayton  Offline
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South Louisiana, USA
Took the Stiletto out Saturday, pretty light wind day. Verified what was said earlier. Make sure everything is loose, downhaul, outhaul, traveler, main sheet. Main goes all the way up until it hits, cleat off, set everything according to wind. My downhaul is only 4/1, but works OK. Main headboard never moves when cranked on downhaul even after all day. This spring we had a LOT of wind for a few months so I would know if it was a problem.

Let us know how the new halyard works out.

Clayton


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