| Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: Tony_F18]
#237566 09/14/11 09:46 AM 09/14/11 09:46 AM |
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 172 Anacortes Sloansailing
member
|
member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172 Anacortes | Hobbles are usually short pieces of line fixed to a point on the boat with a shackle that attach to a loop spliced into the jib sheet, to facilitate transferring one sheet to the winch from another. Its quite common on large race boats. Saves the weight/complexity of another winch. Didn't you ever wonder how a TP52 can have only 5 winches? Even on the 65'er I sail we use hobbles to get the kite sheet on the primary winch during a set, and we have 11 winches.
Anacortes Rigging.com Rigging and Yacht Services
| | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#237768 09/17/11 09:06 AM 09/17/11 09:06 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | to all the monoslug sailors who said cats can't match race. SUCK IT. that was awesome. Go the White Tiger!
Jake Kohl | | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: Jake]
#237770 09/17/11 09:49 AM 09/17/11 09:49 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Charlie! No! I once went through a downwind gate the wrong way but I had been sailing for 8 months!
Jake Kohl | | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: Jake]
#237775 09/17/11 06:43 PM 09/17/11 06:43 PM |
Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 307 maui jollyrodgers
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307 maui | i hope you guys don't mind me chiming in here. i keep see these monohull sailors that have the helm of these big cats trying to tack safe leeward. In the first match race on Saturday 9/17, Artemis had the room to cross, shut the door on Korea and lay the mark. Instead they tacked safe leeward, which is really hard to make work on a cat, then they failed to lay the mark, had an extra tack to do, and they got sent out to opposite/wrong side of the course. Korea didn't get covered, and picked up a nice shift, gust or whatever, and totally destroyed Artemis. Seems to me Artemis guys, as awesome as they are, need to employ some primitive Hobie racing tactics from time to time. "if you're not first you're last" -Reese Bobby in "Taledega Nights"
Last edited by jollyrodgers; 09/17/11 06:48 PM.
| | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: jollyrodgers]
#237776 09/17/11 07:38 PM 09/17/11 07:38 PM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,921 Michigan PTP
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921 Michigan | explain "tack safe leeward" i hope you guys don't mind me chiming in here. i keep see these monohull sailors that have the helm of these big cats trying to tack safe leeward. In the first match race on Saturday 9/17, Artemis had the room to cross, shut the door on Korea and lay the mark. Instead they tacked safe leeward, which is really hard to make work on a cat, then they failed to lay the mark, had an extra tack to do, and they got sent out to opposite/wrong side of the course. Korea didn't get covered, and picked up a nice shift, gust or whatever, and totally destroyed Artemis. Seems to me Artemis guys, as awesome as they are, need to employ some primitive Hobie racing tactics from time to time. "if you're not first you're last" -Reese Bobby in "Taledega Nights" | | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: PTP]
#237777 09/17/11 07:53 PM 09/17/11 07:53 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | explain "tack safe leeward" Tacking just ahead and to leeward of your competitor while heading upwind so they're on your hip. It's a tactic used quite often in monohull racing to force your opponent to tack away, since they can't live in your dirty air. The problem with doing it in catamarans is that you have to initiate the tack so far ahead, you might as well cross and/or it gives your opponent an opportunity to pinch up out of your dirty air before you get going. T-Hutch has been racing big multis (ESS) for a while. He knows better. | | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: PTP]
#237784 09/18/11 10:01 AM 09/18/11 10:01 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | explain "tack safe leeward" i hope you guys don't mind me chiming in here. i keep see these monohull sailors that have the helm of these big cats trying to tack safe leeward. In the first match race on Saturday 9/17, Artemis had the room to cross, shut the door on Korea and lay the mark. Instead they tacked safe leeward, which is really hard to make work on a cat, then they failed to lay the mark, had an extra tack to do, and they got sent out to opposite/wrong side of the course. Korea didn't get covered, and picked up a nice shift, gust or whatever, and totally destroyed Artemis. Seems to me Artemis guys, as awesome as they are, need to employ some primitive Hobie racing tactics from time to time. "if you're not first you're last" -Reese Bobby in "Taledega Nights" It's called "lee bow" here in the states. In my opinion, it can be done on cats but the apparent wind is so far forward due to the increased speed and the dirty air (bent and/or piled up air to windward) of the cat is much less than in a slower monohull. As Matt indicated, to pull this off on a cat in a match race is to give up a lot of lead you would otherwise have had if you just held your course. It is sometimes beneficial in a fleet race if you have someone on your hip but this position is usually a consequence of some prior positioning issue you had with another boat further ahead of the one on your hip. I'm seeing a lot of issues on these boats that we experience with A) having a lot to do with only a few hands and B) being amatures. Coutt's screw up with the genny sheet was a result of poor house keeping in between and prior to maneuvers. I don't know how Ogletree missed that gate to begin with and how they didn't realize their mistake when they were between the two gate boats. I'm not saying I would do better! Just pointing out that this is a lot of new stuff to everyone involved.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: Jake]
#237789 09/18/11 07:32 PM 09/18/11 07:32 PM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,921 Michigan PTP
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921 Michigan | To those who watched the carnage today. How can the commentators state that greencom was on port when the other boat hit them? Looks like greencom was sort of camping out on starboard and then the other boat (think it was artemis) came up and tried to duck their sterns and missed. Aside from that, who is the female commentator?
Last edited by PTP; 09/18/11 07:33 PM.
| | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: PTP]
#237808 09/19/11 11:23 AM 09/19/11 11:23 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | How can the commentators state that greencom was on port when the other boat hit them? Looks like greencom was sort of camping out on starboard and then the other boat (think it was artemis) came up and tried to duck their sterns and missed. It's difficult to tell much given the very brief snip of video leading up to the collision. I do, however, notice that just before contact, Greencom's jib is flapping nearly straight back, all aboard are facing forward and trimming, and that the helmsman changes sides. The wing is fairly loose and the rudders are over to starboard. Therefore, it looks to me like Greencom is changing course (heading up). Artemis tries to duck but is unsuccessful. The force of contact spins Greencom around, and causes her wing and jib to flip to the starboard side. Therefore, just after the collision, Greencom has the appearance of being on port tack. That might be why the commentator said she was on port. Regards, Eric | | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: PTP]
#237813 09/19/11 12:22 PM 09/19/11 12:22 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | Aside from that, who is the female commentator? Annie Gardner (Nelson). Long-time Hobie sailor, among other things. | | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: brucat]
#237814 09/19/11 12:27 PM 09/19/11 12:27 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | Was there a penalty or redress for either of them? I'd need to see more video (or hear more testimony) to make an informed decision.
Mike Greencomm was assessed a penalty, but then they were tagged (again) by Aleph. A bit more seriously that time: That's the reason they headed back in, not the collision with Artemis. | | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: mbounds]
#237815 09/19/11 12:44 PM 09/19/11 12:44 PM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | that last fleet race was what needs to be marketed to the non-sailing crowd. Lots of action, plenty of lead changes, crashes/spills, etc. The bow-cam shot of ENTZ and O-5 with less than 2 meters spacing and both hauling the mail at 30 kph should get the blood pumping on anyone...
Jay
| | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: Jake]
#237824 09/19/11 02:51 PM 09/19/11 02:51 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | Did GC right their boat without assistance? I don't think they flipped. Energy Team flipped pre-start and righted in less than 3 minutes - using a water-start technique. I was impressed. China Team flipped at the first mark. Artemis flipped mid-race after what looked like a spectacular save. They went over on the drag of the sails alone. | | | Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: sail7seas]
#237835 09/19/11 04:58 PM 09/19/11 04:58 PM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,921 Michigan PTP
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921 Michigan | you guys see this? http://americascup.virtualeye.tv/go to historical, then fleet race, then camera sweet, you can look from above at Greencom and see what happened
Last edited by PTP; 09/19/11 04:59 PM.
| | |
|
0 registered members (),
483
guests, and 78
spiders. | Key: Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod | | Forums26 Topics22,405 Posts267,056 Members8,150 | Most Online2,167 Dec 19th, 2022 | | |