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Re: polar graph [Re: Gilo] #239057
10/15/11 06:48 PM
10/15/11 06:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline OP
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Thanks Gil.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

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Re: polar graph [Re: pgp] #239068
10/17/11 10:18 AM
10/17/11 10:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 141
M
mini Offline
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mini  Offline
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M

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 141
Pete,

You are not going to get any real numbers worth you could sort.

1 guy is pinching a bit, going slow and sideways. Boat 2 generated a bit of hull speed and rode his foil lift up to the same angle of attack but is maintaining speed and going twice as fast.
Maintaining hull speed on a downwind point of sail is even a larger performance gap generator.
Technique generates speeds and watching tracks from the very top F18 guys at NA and worlds, huge spurts of speed came with pressure and once you drop out angle of attack and VMG are all over the place even with the very best of the drivers.

I am sure the AC programs are working on this with huge budgets on instrumentation and computer modeling. At least to date this is obviously not working there. Boat handling and reading the conditions is way the more important factor. Coutts has been made to look like an amateur at times. I would bet he is relying on his past experience and trying to be scientific rather than reacting. If you have to tell somebody to do something or wait for a number to tell you to go, it is too late on cats. Anticipation is key to ultimate speed.

Re: polar graph [Re: mini] #239070
10/17/11 10:54 AM
10/17/11 10:54 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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West coast of Norway
If all you want is something to compare against to know that you are doing:

under average,
average,
above average,

without further quantification, then I think getting som GPS plots is good enough.

Re: polar graph [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #239074
10/17/11 11:03 AM
10/17/11 11:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
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pgp Offline OP
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I'm lost...


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: polar graph [Re: pgp] #239075
10/17/11 11:08 AM
10/17/11 11:08 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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West coast of Norway
Originally Posted by pgp
I'm lost...


That is a good place to be! Then you are close to not being lost anymore smile
Just consider how many are lost without realising so.

Re: polar graph [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #239076
10/17/11 11:14 AM
10/17/11 11:14 AM
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pgp Offline OP
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laugh


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: polar graph [Re: pgp] #239092
10/17/11 12:50 PM
10/17/11 12:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline
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Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Pete, let me know if you want any others to check.
Or just let us know what trim you want to know more about :-)


Falcon F16 - BEL666
Boats: TheBoatShop.be
Stories: bladef16.blogspot.com
Re: polar graph [Re: Gilo] #239099
10/17/11 02:48 PM
10/17/11 02:48 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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West coast of Norway
Hey, please post as many "personal polars" as possible! They are great for comparison!

Re: polar graph [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #239100
10/17/11 03:34 PM
10/17/11 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
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pgp Offline OP
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http://connect.garmin.com/activity/91690890

Here's a gps track, how do you get started?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: polar graph [Re: pgp] #239101
10/17/11 03:50 PM
10/17/11 03:50 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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West coast of Norway
Download http://gpsactionreplay.free.fr/index.php?menu=2

Then import your GPS datafile into GPSAR. Create polar is a menu choice smile

I was unable to get the raw data out of the Garmin page.

Re: polar graph [Re: pgp] #239102
10/17/11 04:10 PM
10/17/11 04:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline
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TEH  Offline
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Chicago, Illinois USA
Pete, I think that the PC version (as opposed to the web version) of Kattack will allow you to do polars on any boat in any race. For example, you could go to the CRAW races and do a polar on me, Karl, Mark, or Daniel.


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: polar graph [Re: TEH] #239103
10/17/11 04:19 PM
10/17/11 04:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline OP
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I'll play around with it...


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: polar graph [Re: pgp] #250867
07/16/12 09:54 PM
07/16/12 09:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
Aido Offline
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Aido  Offline
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Brisveagas
Hi guys,

Ive been messing around with the Prostart and GPSAR and it spits out polars quiet easily.

Ive attached a polar of my old viper in 20 kts. I supose the you need to get different ones for wind and wave conditions.

Attached Files
viper polar.jpg (153 downloads)

Aido
Viper 288
Re: polar graph [Re: pgp] #250868
07/16/12 09:59 PM
07/16/12 09:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
Aido Offline
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Aido  Offline
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Posts: 242
Brisveagas
After a second look the wind direction my be a little out of whack but you get the idea. GPSAR has great statistics on top and average speeds and also shows you the runs on the map.


Aido
Viper 288
Re: polar graph [Re: Aido] #250869
07/17/12 04:41 AM
07/17/12 04:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
Aido Offline
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Aido  Offline
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Brisveagas
Heres the proper one with the wind orientated the right way. I think the interesting thing is that the upwind vmg seems quite wide. So you can still get good upwind VMG even when you put the bow down pretty hard.

Attached Files
viper polar.jpg (178 downloads)

Aido
Viper 288
Re: polar graph [Re: pgp] #250918
07/18/12 01:29 PM
07/18/12 01:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline OP
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I've tried working with GPSAR and had little luck.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: polar graph [Re: pgp] #250927
07/18/12 10:41 PM
07/18/12 10:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
Aido Offline
enthusiast
Aido  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
Pro Start is your friend Pete. It talks to GPSAR perfectly. I love it. Although there is almost zero time to look at it while sailing unless its light. But it records 40 hours of sailing on it. Its fun to go back through it and see where you went wrong. The detail is quite amazing.

I got my metal working mate to make me up a very light aluminium bracket that i sew to the tramp between the mast and the starboard hull just behind the front beam. It seems to work really well there. The jib self tacker seams to protect it from the spin sheets.


Aido
Viper 288
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