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Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? #239521
10/31/11 07:20 AM
10/31/11 07:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 217
Palm Harbor, FL
daniel_t Offline OP
enthusiast
daniel_t  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 217
Palm Harbor, FL
I know I would never buy a car without test driving it, what do you guys think about buying a boat without a test sail?


Daniel T.
Taipan F16 - USA 213
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239523
10/31/11 07:37 AM
10/31/11 07:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
old hand
pitchpoledave  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
It depends. If you are familiar with the boat that you want (a friend has one) then its not so important. But if you are trying to decide which class to go in or what boat you like for pleasure sailing then yes definitely. I firmly believe that you have to like the boat you sail.

Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239526
10/31/11 08:02 AM
10/31/11 08:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
I bought my Blade sight unseen, never been happier.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239529
10/31/11 08:17 AM
10/31/11 08:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 975
South Louisiana, USA
Clayton Offline
old hand
Clayton  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 975
South Louisiana, USA
I agree with Dave. Bought 3 cats w/out sailing them first. Being familiar with what they were and how they performed is why I bought them.

Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239533
10/31/11 08:38 AM
10/31/11 08:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
Pooh-Bah
catman  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
If the boats local then having the owner take you out should be no problem. I wouldn't let anyone I didn't know take my boat for a sail without me.

What boat are you looking at?


Have Fun
Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239536
10/31/11 09:24 AM
10/31/11 09:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
old hand
Dan_Delave  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Took a guy out on a race this past weekend who had almost decided to buy a Formula 18 before he was ever on one. For that matter had not even sailed a catamaran before. We had a really nice time and by the end of the day he was convinced he needed one.

Dan

Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239538
10/31/11 09:30 AM
10/31/11 09:30 AM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M



I required a "dry rigging" of my h16 before i would purchase it (so i knew how to rig it and to verify ALL the parts were there).

All the parts were NOT there.. glad i did that.

I required the owners to take me out before i purchased my TheMightyHobie18, and my current boat to make sure a. it floated, and b. i liked the ride.

Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239556
10/31/11 01:53 PM
10/31/11 01:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 930
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
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samc99us  Offline
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S

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 930
Solomon's Island, MD
I bought my N20 w/o sailing, but I knew the following:

1) I liked the N20, having crewed on one
2) I needed a N20 to do Tybee
3) The boat I was buying was FAST, as in FASTER than FAST. It had placed top 3 in nationals on numerous occasions. This was also immediately apparent when we used the previous owners stock settings, old sails and beat 4 other very experienced N20's upwind for 10 miles the 2nd time out on the boat.

In short, it really depends on what you are buying. If you are picking up a $15K racing boat from a guy who is a top level racer, well, you expect that all the bits are there and he will provide some level of support after selling the boat in the form of tuning and getting up to speed. If you are buying a $2k H16, yeah, I would be checking that thing to make sure all the parts are there!


Scorpion F18
Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239568
10/31/11 08:22 PM
10/31/11 08:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8
Panama City, FL
PCFL waterman Offline
stranger
PCFL waterman  Offline
stranger

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 8
Panama City, FL
Some boats are just slow, so yes test sail it!! you don't wanna end up making alot of overhauls/changes to a boat you thought looked fast or taking the word of some "skipper" who just had the cash to buy big. you never REALLY know someone till you have sailed with them...same rules apply for the boat..atleast in my book.


Live Slow, Sail Fast!!
--roger--
Bimare Javelin 18HT 2
Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: PCFL waterman] #239581
11/01/11 05:56 AM
11/01/11 05:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by PCFL waterman
Some boats are just slow, so yes test sail it!! you don't wanna end up making alot of overhauls/changes to a boat you thought looked fast or taking the word of some "skipper" who just had the cash to buy big. you never REALLY know someone till you have sailed with them...same rules apply for the boat..atleast in my book.


I disagree with that. There is very little variance from boat to boat from any of the manufacturers. Things like clean and fair bottoms, clean foils, decent sails, proper boat setup, and - most importantly - proper sailing technique are what make them fast - there's no magic from boat to boat that makes one faster than the other.

I used to hear the same thing during the Alter Cup Championship where we have 10 new boats and 20 sailors rotating on the boats. The fleet would generally arrive at a conclusion that a couple of boats were the "faster" boats in the fleet. Once we started using a digital scoring and boat assignment system (to make sure everyone was getting rotated evenly on all the boats), I started putting together statistics on finishes by boat number...there was less than a 1.1% deviation in finish positions by boat - and that was consistent over the three years I was involved with the event.


Jake Kohl
Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239584
11/01/11 07:48 AM
11/01/11 07:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
veteran
TEAMVMG  Offline
veteran

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
I don't see the point
either the idiot that you are buying it off has got it rigged wrong and it won't feel great to sail

or

you are buying it off of someone better that you who has prooved that it is good boat by his results

Tyre kickers want test sails and quite often make a hobby of doing it - seeming never actually buying a boat!


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: Jake] #239586
11/01/11 08:04 AM
11/01/11 08:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
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carlbohannon  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
Originally Posted by Jake
There is very little variance from boat to boat from any of the manufacturers. ... there's no magic from boat to boat that makes one faster than the other.


In general or if you are talking about boats from the same lot, I agree. For boats that have a long production run or are produced in different locations, some are better than others. For example, the 1988(?) Alter Cup TheMightyHobie18's were all near minimum weight, did not leak, the sails showed signs of being individually trimmed, and the batten lengths were different. In the case of the H16 and Catalina 22, there were definitely some bad years. In some cases the differences fade over time and in other cases the bad years just fall apart(in the early 80's several builders switched to a "better" foam core that started delaminating after a short time)

The new boats seem to be more reliable and consistent than the boats of old but commercial companies do not have to tell you if they change something.


Last edited by carlbohannon; 11/01/11 08:07 AM.
Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: Jake] #239588
11/01/11 08:40 AM
11/01/11 08:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
It's tough to fight cold hard facts.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: David Ingram] #239593
11/01/11 09:02 AM
11/01/11 09:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
addict
Matt M  Offline
addict

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
If you have no clue on what boat you want to buy, then you had better do some test sailing to compare. How easy is it to move, set-up, sail. Is it going to be beyond you skill level or something you will quickly get bored with?

If you have narrowed the search to one of the Formula class boats then again go for a test sail on the various brands. There are subtly differences in set-up and feel between brands that if your skill level is sufficient you may notice.

If you know what kind and brand boat you want then a test sail is not so necessary. Make sure you (or get someone who knows the boat) carefully inspects it if it is used. All the parts need to be there and the sails, rigging and hulls need to be in a condition that is representative of what the asking price is on the boat.

Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: Jake] #239618
11/01/11 04:56 PM
11/01/11 04:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by Jake

I disagree with that. There is very little variance from boat to boat from any of the manufacturers.


Kinda off topic..... but, I've had 3-1/2 Vipers, each one felt different and unique from the other. I think the one I've got now is pretty good, but I think the one I had before was the best I've had. I also had one that I sailed for half a season I just did not like. But, I know the Viper pretty darn well, and if you're just test sailing something those small variances probably aren't noticeable unless you've got a ton of time on that model already.

I don't really see the point in a test sail. I've never done it. Assembling the boat with the current owner if you are unfamiliar with it is a good idea so you know the little nuances, and so you know all the bits and pieces are there.


I'm boatless.
Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: Karl_Brogger] #239620
11/01/11 06:40 PM
11/01/11 06:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
Pooh-Bah
arbo06  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
The problem is is that the seller, in many cases, may have to wrap up a whole day in trailering to the sailing site, set up, test sail, break down, and trailer home just to have the prospective buyer say "sorry, but thanks for a great day on the water". It is not a problem 1 time, butt, if you go through the drill several times it could get really tedious.

Eric


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239621
11/01/11 06:51 PM
11/01/11 06:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 32
E
evansdb78 Offline
newbie
evansdb78  Offline
newbie
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 32
I have never test sailed a boat I bought. I do research on known problems and check it out closely. Factor in buying new wearable items (Shrouds, sheets, halyards) if they are a few years old. The price is usually slightly negotiable with used, and there are plenty of good deals.

Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239624
11/01/11 07:04 PM
11/01/11 07:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 32
E
evansdb78 Offline
newbie
evansdb78  Offline
newbie
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 32
Also without a tune up boat, you would not be able to tell if it were fast. Difference in speed in a boat known to be fast and an untested one is very little.

Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: daniel_t] #239625
11/01/11 07:06 PM
11/01/11 07:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
old hand

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
No test sails here, but I did get the seller to rig it. That had more to do with just showing me how more than anything.

Re: Buying a boat... Merits of a test sail? [Re: bacho] #239626
11/01/11 07:15 PM
11/01/11 07:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
Pooh-Bah
arbo06  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
I just bought a John Deere riding mower.... I should have had the seller cut my grass first!


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
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