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F85SR Concept Boat
by phill. 01/29/20 03:44 AM
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Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #237153
09/04/11 12:22 AM
09/04/11 12:22 AM
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australia
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self_inflicted Offline
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I just had another thought Phill, If the lifting foils don't work, Just put extra lead in the stern(you could always carry the bottles of rum back there). The floats is looking really good.

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Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: self_inflicted] #237154
09/04/11 12:41 AM
09/04/11 12:41 AM
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phill Offline OP
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Richard,
What a good idea, with a bit of plumbing we could run rum ballast instead of water ballast.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #237155
09/04/11 01:19 AM
09/04/11 01:19 AM
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phill Offline OP
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Something I first tried years back and is proving to be very useful on this build is using a scraper
in some circumstances that would otherwise involve sanding.
One example would be if you accidentally get a run of resin over a surface of paint, timber or even foam. Sanding that run away will not only take quite a bit of effort but it also damages the surface around the run.

On the other hand a scraper with a nice sharp tungsten blade and light pressure will remove the run with
little or no damage to the surrounding area (depending on how careful you are.)

I had some runs on the foam which I easily removed with the scraper without marking the foam and I also
used the scraper to taper the edge of the glass in preparation for the overlap when the other side is
glassed. It can be an amazingly handy tool and can save quite a bit of elbow grease.

Below is a pic of the scraper that I'm using.

[Linked Image]


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #237231
09/06/11 04:14 PM
09/06/11 04:14 PM
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Vacuuming the external laminate for the lifting foil side of the float posed the problem of sealing for a vacuum without the risk of crushing the case. I've added some pics as per below.


Before the glass was wet out the openning for the case was cut in it. After the perforated film, peel ply and wadding were also cut for the case openning and packing tape was used to make sure no parts of these layers could interfere with a vacuum seal around the case openning.
[Linked Image]


The pic below just shows the vacuum has been applied (again getting 25 inches or 12 lbs per sq inch). You can see dark patches where the wadding is taking up some resin.
[Linked Image]

I've been using household irrigation supplies for the vacuum plumbing. Here you can see a hose (that I punched small holes in) wrapped in wadding distributing the vacuum along the length of the hull.
[Linked Image]


Not only did I seal around the case opennings I also put a breather hole in the film covering the case openning as an added precaution to make sure I did not pull a vacuum on the case. The cases are very strong but still not worth risking crushing them.
[Linked Image]


All cured, peeling away the layers to see the results.
[Linked Image]


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #237279
09/08/11 05:24 AM
09/08/11 05:24 AM
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The plan today was to laminate the stbd side of the stbd float.
I had organised a friend to come along and lend a hand.
He told another friend who is also building a boat and they both turned up.
All went extremely well and it is currently under a vacuum of 26 inches = 12.77lpounds per sq inch.
Below are some pics of the hull side under vacuum.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #237373
09/10/11 01:34 AM
09/10/11 01:34 AM
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phill Offline OP
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Finished laminating the outside of the floats today.
The last side is currently under vacuum and due to the cold temp I will run the vacuum most of the night.
It is currently pulling 25 inches once again. I'm very happy with the way they are turning out, they seem very stiff
and have a ring to them when you tap them.
I'll take some pics of the two floats together over the next day or two.

Last edited by phill; 09/10/11 02:54 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #238796
10/08/11 06:49 PM
10/08/11 06:49 PM
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I haven't got around to taking the pics of the hulls together but i have a few other pics that I'll post as I find the time.
Once the outside has been laminated I need to gain access to do some work on the inside.
This is simply done by cutting holes in the deck. Doing the work and then repairing the hole.

The pic below shows a hole I cut in the foredeck to install a compression strut and glass the inside seems.
[Linked Image]

In order to repair the hole a glass plate is made using the deck as a mould. The plate is then glued to the section of deck.
[Linked Image]

With the floats suspended from above i thought of a novel way of clamping the glue joint when making the repair.

[Linked Image]


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #238797
10/08/11 07:08 PM
10/08/11 07:08 PM
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Below are a couple of other pics or the Transom an bow.

[Linked Image]
I've installed a transom strong enough to take rudders and stay in one piece if the rudder hits an object.

[Linked Image]
The transom is in two parts allowing easy access to ensure the part that takes the rudder is well glassed in. Above is a pic of the final shape.

Below is a shot of the bow. Once faired and painted you probably won't even notice the two small holes that provide a strong point to attach the spinnaker pole brace.
[Linked Image]



I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #238944
10/12/11 12:38 PM
10/12/11 12:38 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Thanks Phill!

You mentioned "cold". I thought it was heating up as summer approaced?

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #238981
10/13/11 04:56 AM
10/13/11 04:56 AM
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phill Offline OP
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Rolf,
Summer is approaching but it's not that warm just yet.
I went for a short 40km ride today and it was only 12 deg C.

Speaking of cold you reminded me of a little experiment I thought I'd try a week or so back. I tried making a glass tube over a solid aluminum mandrel for a part of my Carbon Chain plate.
Rather than coating the mandrel in candle wax that I'd melt later to release I got this bright idea of freezing the final tube and mandrel to shrink the mandrel for release.
Just in case your thinking of trying something like this don't bother, go with the candle wax. I did finally get the glass tube and mandrel apart undamaged but it took a winch and some snap straps to do it. The glass tube has an inside dia of 12.5mm an outside dia of 18.5mm, 190mm long and weighs 47gms. and it took a 1metre length of 200gm plain weave glass to make.

Below is just a couple of pics of my setup. I spun the mandrel with the drill slowly to wrap the glass around it and then quickly while gripping the glass to compact the layup and remove excess resin. Then applied the peel ply and finally tape.

[Linked Image]

Once cured the peel ply and tape is removed. This is a good time to sand it if required, while the drill can still spin it.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by phill; 10/13/11 02:38 PM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #239436
10/27/11 07:19 PM
10/27/11 07:19 PM
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
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Bump

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: Seeker] #239908
11/09/11 03:40 PM
11/09/11 03:40 PM
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For over a week now I've been getting a "Critical Error" when trying to access the photo album so I'm unable to upload more pics. My carbon chain plates are built and installed and I'm very happy with the result. It's time to put a finish on the outside of the floats.
So I've diverted to excavating under my front verandah and will put in a 20 plus metre long path 1600mm wide and brick retaining wall where I can store the floats end to end and work on putting a finish on them while working on the beams and main hull. Having them out of the way like this will allow me to work on the finish at my leisure and I can keep at it until it is spot on.
This excavation is taking a while and I can't wait to get back to working on the boat.

BTW:- Mark Hastings is just about finish machining the folding mech on his CNC machine and it is really top notch work. I can't post a pic of it on catsailor with the "critical error problem" but he did post one on Multihull Sailing Anarchy. If the Catsailor photo album starts working I'll stick a pic there.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #240024
11/12/11 10:57 AM
11/12/11 10:57 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Take care with your back when working under your veranda! smile

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #240094
11/14/11 02:04 PM
11/14/11 02:04 PM
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TexasTuma Offline
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Phill, very interesting project... what are the beams like? I am needing some F-24 beams and wondering if they are the same dimensions?


Cheers...
Scott Tuma
P 18-2 Mod Turbo "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: TexasTuma] #240112
11/15/11 01:52 AM
11/15/11 01:52 AM
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phill Offline OP
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Scott,
The best bet would be to shoot an email to Ian Farrier.
There is a slight difference between the F85 and F82 beams but I have no idea how that compares to the F24. A question to the designer would most likely get you the info that you need.
Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #240395
11/23/11 03:44 AM
11/23/11 03:44 AM
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Hi Phil
Thanks for putting in the effort to do the web page for the world to see.
I am considering a F85SR Build in Western Australia.
What size vac pump are you using?
Did you compile a composite purchase list? I am trying to get a handle on the cost for a simple F85SR but mostly to determine what I need to spend to get started?
It is great to see you weight data for the areas where you show how much resin used and how much saved by the bagging.

What epoxy are you using? Supplier?

What head height do you think is the minimum? I dont think it is going to fit my garage so I am considering a temp shed.
Any other people considering a build in western Australia?
Thanks
David

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: David_F85cruiser] #240425
11/23/11 03:46 PM
11/23/11 03:46 PM
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phill Offline OP
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David,
I'll answer below:-

>I am considering a F85SR Build in Western Australia.
>What size vac pump are you using?

The pump I'm using has a 1hp motor. I don't have any other info as it was a gift from a friend.

>Did you compile a composite purchase list?
A comprehensive list comes with the plans so I used that.

>I am trying to get a handle on the cost for a simple F85SR >but mostly to determine what I need to spend to get started?

That depends if you want to buy all your materials first or just a bit at a time. I bought all the resin, glass, foam, uni carbon, vacuum consumeables (release film, vac film and absorption fabric) as well resin additives (filler, glue mix etc). Basically all the composite materials that I need to make the floats, beams and main hull for around $14,000

I had to shop around to get it at this price but if you do decide to build I'm happy to share my supplier info offline.
That would at least give you something to start working from.

>What epoxy are you using? Supplier?

Over the years I've built up a rather strong allergy to most brands of epoxy. So when I went looking for epoxy I wanted something that was not only a good quality but also one that would not affect me too badly. I ended up buying my epoxy from Gurit. So I'm using Ampreg 21. I really like this epoxy but it is one of the more expensive. If cost is an issue I can tell you of other epoxies that are cheaper. The extra cost was worth it to me because of my allergy.

>What head height do you think is the minimum?

This is also specified in the plans. Farrier leaves nothing out. The height to be able to join the main hull is 2750mm. But this is on a strong back with legs. (The legs specified are there to make the work easy on your back. Not too much bending.)
I have 2700mm and will cut the legs down on the strong back when I want to join the main hull.

I hope that info is of some help.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #240427
11/23/11 05:25 PM
11/23/11 05:25 PM
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David_F85cruiser Offline
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Thanks Phil
This gives me a some things to think about.
I will research about Ampreg 21, I have mostly used West System (by the 4 lt pack) Work height is an issue for me at home for the hull joining.

I have had a win on the home front and the "Honey do list" before I start is less than a months work smile

Regards
David

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #240432
11/23/11 08:37 PM
11/23/11 08:37 PM

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David the WA agent for SP_gurit is Summit Chemicals in Bibra Lake, they should be able to help you with Ampreg and other associated materials. If you talk to Chris at Boating Hardware and he will probably be able to point you to a Vacuum Pump you could borrow and help sort ou your other needs.

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: David_F85cruiser] #240447
11/24/11 01:53 AM
11/24/11 01:53 AM
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phill Offline OP
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David,
The height issue will most likely not raise its head until joining the main hull. I know one F85SR builder who does not have legs on his strong back from the start which would save between 250- 300mm.
Please let me know how it goes if you do decide to build I'd like to keep in touch. I'm talking to other F85SR builders and we try to help each other.
Also the plans are quite extensive. When you first get them many take a back step because of the detail that Farrier includes.
His name depends on builders like us building to a certain standard and so he leaves nothing out and the detail really helps with the build. All you have to do is follow the plans and tick the boxes as you go.
If you decide to build get the plans as soon as you can so you have time to digest the detail.

Good luck,
Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

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