Is the Finish line a "gate"? for downwind finishes.

Do the same rules apply, is there a 3 boat zone, inside boat having right off way or is it only P/S that applies.
Can you push windward boats above the outer mark?

Confused

Thanks again to all.

For the most part, yes. There is a zone and Rule 18 does apply in the zone at either end.

What is the name of the rules book with the plastic boats? Is it still made?

I fully understand ROW rules when sailing (in terms of port/starboard/windward/leeward). Now, I don't always apply them correctly and will be the first to admit fault. My point is that I try very hard to keep a proper look out but when you are going close to 20 kn downwind and there is a mixed fleet, I appreciate people yelling at me even if I already know you are there. whats wrong with that?
BTW, what is with the statement regarding "slow down and pick your way through the fleet?"

Good thread, I was wondering many of the ROW questions myself.

I appreciate people yelling at me even if I already know you are there. whats wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing... BUT... they could be deaf mutes and you are still completely responsible ... Frequently.... By the time you do hear them screaming leeward... it's probably too late ... tis why the hails are out of the rules.

BTW, what is with the statement regarding "slow down and pick your way through the fleet?"

Oh... you COULD choose to fall off (slow down while you are on port..) and take some transoms (pick your way through the fleet of port tackers

I appreciate a wave from the hailed boat to acknowledge they see or heard us.

On another tack, I would like to see ROW windward boat with the kite up, similar to iceboats.

The boats come with Paul Elvstrom Explains the Yacht Racing Rules for 2009-2012 available from APS (here)

US Sailing has them by themselves, without the book - here.

I don't know what happened to mine but they are very useful.

I hear what you guys are saying. I think Eric already mentioned this, but rule makers must be extremely careful when changing ROW rules; otherwise the game is changed (and balance is lost).

Call it game theory, or some upper-level thinking, but a lot of thought goes into the rules, and many situations are run, to be sure that there isn't a rule that makes one particular strategy or tactic so powerful that racing turns into a one-way track.

We don't use the rules as weapons nearly as much as match racers or team racers. Even on monohulls, the rule situations in those disciplines come at you (and change) so fast, it's hard to keep up.

Mike

BTW, in a pinch, sugar packets (or credit cards) make excellent boats, and salt shakers make excellent marks.

These items are normally in copious supply at the local watering hole...

Mike

The rules that apply to a downwind finish line are identical to those at a leeward gate. The rules for mark room apply within the 3 length zones. Whether or not a leeward boat can push a windward boat above the finish mark depends on how the relationship between the boats was established when they reach the zone as well as how things are established before they reach the zone. Within the zone, the inside overlapped boat is entitled to room, so you have to let them in. However, before the zone is reached, the windward boat must keep clear of the leeward boat, so the leeward boat may luff the windward boat up within the limitations of Rule 17 (same tack, proper course). So if they attempt to overtake you to windward before either of you reach the zone, you can luff them. Once you hit the zone, if they're inside overlapped, you have to let them in. It's all the same stuff as at a leeward gate.

sm

I was unable to follow the submission links but that's okay the process outline is clear. The links also indicate the work load, which is substantial for a volunteer group. For me, this is very helpful, thanks.

I also feel the need to point out that the standard rules of racing (for sailors) are only 7 pages long and printed with large typeface. There are nuances but they're not overly complicated that a discussion like this one here can provide full explanation. You can download them at the following link:

http://www.sailing.org/racingrules.php

I also like Dave Perry's rule breakdown book and reference it frequently:

available at amazon

Thanks for the links Jake.

I keep a copy of the RRS2009-2012-[5950].PDF file on my phone, effectively always have a copy when I need it. Comes in handy.

Clarification:

18.1 (c) between a boat approaching a mark and one leaving it,

When is a boat presumed to have left a mark?

I don't suppose it will ever really matter, but it would be nice if one could make the distinction. It's a matter of rigor I suppose.

Pete, on your port tack upwind example, you're most likely to be seeing spin boats on stb. If the course is favored such that you're making good progress on port tack, the boats at A will drive off and continue on Stb rather than a gybe-set.

As they heat up, they'll be driving deeper, which may put them closer to your bows. As the closing speed will likely be big, you would have to make a judgement call as to your next move:

- Hold your course/speed and they'll drive past you (best if you're mid-way up the course and they're pointing at or in front of you with a reasonable distance (more than a few boatlengths)

- prepare to duck their sterns, especially if you haven't made eye-contact with anyone on that boat OR you see they're somehow hindered in their options (like they're being pushed around by another spin boat). Conversely you could just ease the main a tad and slow up a bit rather than bang the boat up (works best in light air)

If the wind is back to the right at A, you'll see a lot of boats going down on port tack (gybe-set or set-gybe). If you're up near the top mark in this scenario, it could get dicey since the boats rounding (or leaving "A") are going to be busy and not paying attention as much to other boats coming up.

in either case a simple

HEY W.T.F should get attention and they'll likely drive around you. If not, you should alter course to avoid a collision and yell "Protest" to the offending boat (pulling out your trusty red flag)

You could also whistle at them to get their attention.


I guess the message here is you're going upwind and most likely slower than the downwind spin boats. Once they see you, it would likely be easier for them to work around you than the other way around. And, if you don't make any unanticipated moves, all the better. If you're the ROW boat, most sailors know you don't have to change course unless there's no other option.

Best way to get comfortable with all this commotion? Get out and sail the course! You'd be suprised at how much you already know, and you only doubt your abilities because you aren't out there too much.

It gets a lot easier judging whether you're going to cross ahead or behind the more you get placed in that situation. Once you get that, you're more likely to know if another boat is going to be an issue or not...

Hope it helps! Try some of this out at Charlotte Harbor in Feb!

Drink 2 bottles of rum, spin counter clockwise 3 times, and click your heels together and say "no place like home"